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Traveler
17-08-2005, 08:34 PM
Because things tend to be slowing down again here at PGD, I thought I'd shed some light on that secret project of mine. (oh and to show off a bit against cairnswms project, perhaps that'll get his gear back on track again :wink: )

As you may have read on my website, the main thing I'm now working on is the isometric engine.
So far that alone has been quite challanging as I have never done any real isometric projects. Well, apart from the isocanvas demo that is, but that was only a conversion to DelphiX (btw did you know its being further developed in Omega (http://www.delphisanctuary.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=509), by czar?).

Anyway here's a screenshot of the project so far:
http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/pgd4e4_1.png
What you see here is a single tree, with randomly placed tiles on it. There also a red selection square, currently hovering over tile 58.

Current item on the todo list are the inhabitants. At the moment I don't have any definite sprites, so I use dummies instead. I can tell you its not an easy task, making them move within the boundaries of the map, checking for obstacles and fixing the order of drawing (ie make a sprite correctly move behind or in front of the tree, depending on its position). And I haven't even thought about pathfinding yet :-)

About the rest of game: I don't really want to tell that much about it yet, but suffice to say the of the four elements, I'll be using zombies and a robot, where the player will control the latter. Furthermore, the whole game takes place in a small town. Objectives or missions are still being thought out, as they will heavily depend on the state of the game mid september.

Ok, enough for now. Let me know what you think about it!

cairnswm
18-08-2005, 04:42 AM
Cool!

And btw - you're on :) - As soon as work calms down (I'm tired of 12 hour days now) I'll put a lot of effort into my RTS again :)

I have done the diamond shape isometric maps before and cannot find a reason to do them in preference to a tilebased isometric approach which is in the long term a lot easier to code, understand and to do pathfinding for. Think carefully about your reasons for doing it in diamond shape.

For sprites use Reiners sprites until you have your own. They work nicely and have enough animations to look good. He doesn't have any Robots though. - for my RTS I have someone doing sprites for Robots and the rest of the units will be Reiners tile sets. (He does have zombies)

czar
18-08-2005, 05:19 AM
How is diamond based different from tile based isometric? Are they not one and the same? Just a square area drawn as if you are standing higher up and to one side.

I loved isometric games especially UFO enemy unknown.

I still want to do Rebelstar in isometric. One day.

WILL
18-08-2005, 05:23 AM
UFO rocks! :D

I think they mean hexigonal tiles...

cairnswm
18-08-2005, 05:32 AM
Diamond based isometric is like the picture above. (Travellers 4E4 entry)
Tile based is what I refer to when its basically square tiles placed next to one another. (See previous discussion on Starcraft somewhere on this site). - (My 4E4 entry uses this display as does Run-A-War)

Typically they both store data the same way (An array based map maybe) but the way they transform the tiles to display the information is different. Tile based just displays in Z order top to bottom. Diamond based does the same basically from a NW direction toward SE - to me this just makes life difficult.

Pathfinding is easier because if using smaller than tile squares for pathfinding its easier to debug by showing information on the screen - otherwaise once again you need to do the transformations to just show debug info.

WILL
18-08-2005, 07:03 AM
Ah ok... I remember this discussion from before. I often wondered how the buildings were built onto the map via squares on the map.

But then again, the map editor treated the maps like 'true' isometric tiles. It's rather interesting how that was done.

Traveler
18-08-2005, 07:46 AM
Think carefully about your reasons for doing it in diamond shape.

I have. And you're right about the difficulties. However I find them a fun thing to solve and once they're solved its quite satisfying.
I tend not to look too much ahead as there are enough difficulties to make me stop the entire project and go back to WoW instead. No, this time I'm doing this one step at the time :)

Traveler
23-08-2005, 08:03 PM
Last few days I've been working on the body for the zombie model.
There's still lots of parts that need improvement, but here's a wip version.
http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/zombie_further.jpg

I'm having a bit of trouble getting it to look like a typical zombie. Of course the current pose isn't much helpfull, and perhaps the clothes are still too clean. I am in any case not going for the kind that has bodyparts ripped off or anything like that (like what you see in the movies).

Anyways, if you might have some pointers, I'd be grateful :)

Sly
23-08-2005, 10:52 PM
The purple hair is a problem for me. I would imagine zombies to have not much hair, and the hair they do have would be thin, stringy and greyish.

That's one fit zombie with muscles. Those tight abs would be impressive on a living person, let alone someone risen from the dead.

Definitely more dirt and tears in the clothing.

overchord
24-08-2005, 12:31 PM
Traveler - that is a really nice WIP!!! Good stuff indeed.

Although ripped clothes might help on the "zombiness" of the character I would have to go for the skin-tone. Currently the skintone looks rather....healthy, whereas in a zombie I would usually imagine some whitish/grey/blueish skin instead.
I also agree that the purple hair doesn't really do it for a zombie :lol:

But looking forward to see where this is going - great potential!

Traveler
24-08-2005, 01:14 PM
Thank you guys, thats exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to get!
I'll keep them in mind for my next update.

WILL
24-08-2005, 09:39 PM
I realize that you are only in the cosmetic phase of your zombie, but when you get to the movement or the posing, I'd recommend making it sort of a 'dag-doll' movement... being as most typical zombies will seem to drag themselves around (due to lack of remaining 'good' muscle tissue?)

Also, though you are not wanting them to have missing limbs, you should at least consider some form of scaring or skin decay. As Zombies aren't known for their 'good looks' based on being alive and well above ground. ;)

Mmmm... worm food! :P

Traveler
25-08-2005, 08:14 PM
Ok after a couple hours tweaking the (part procedural) textures, heres a newer version. Facial/body color has been replaced, purple hair is also gone now. I also added stains and colored the shirt a bit.

http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/zombie_further_2.jpg

I also made a test render to see what the same model would look like when it was rendered at gamesize level.
I suppose movement is going to play a bigger role here, as the typical zombie features are pretty much gone :?

In any case, any comments are again welcome.

Sly
25-08-2005, 10:32 PM
Much better. :)

Now you just need the stilted, stiff-legged, lop-sided movement that your stereotypical zombie has and you have one real zombie served up.

overchord
26-08-2005, 10:33 AM
Looks great!!

Almost a shame that he's going to be that small now :D

WILL
26-08-2005, 10:38 AM
I think the detail is great! It adds more... umm.. life?... to the graphics. :)

BojZ
26-08-2005, 02:17 PM
Nice indeed!

I hope you have as much fun working on iso as we do.

And, yes, UFO really rocks in all aspects!

BojZ

Traveler
27-08-2005, 03:18 PM
Thanks for the feedback :)

I'm busy setting up the rig, so with a bit of luck I may have some kind of animation cycle done by tomorrow.

Below's a very early test pose.
Obviously there's still much work to be done here :roll:
http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/zombie_further_3.jpg

Oh btw what do you think would be better, bare feet or shoes?

WILL
27-08-2005, 06:04 PM
What do you think happened to this guy before he became a zombie. I don't know of too may Zombies that care about fine footwear. ;)

If he is half dressed maybe he has only socks? Or maybe he's just one of those studly dudes or hilbillies that likes to wear buttoned shirts unbuttoned...

I like to go from the 'where did this person, creature, thing come from to get to this point' to resolve issues such as these. Every thing in your games has a past and a history. It's the key to gainning a sense of true realizim in a game I think.

JSoftware
27-08-2005, 07:05 PM
bare feet! :D

that arm..? :?

Traveler
30-08-2005, 10:21 PM
Good points there WILL.
I think bare feet would indeed be the best solution. Though for the game it would probably not matter if it are shoes or bare feet. They probably wont be visible anyway.


that arm..? :?
This was the result of a missing weight map. Fortunately it was easily solved. It sometimes happens during animating as well. Only then the entire rig is messed up and you'll end up having feet in his face, or something like that. I've yet to find a solution for it other than to reload the scene. :?

But anyway, despite all problems with the rig, I have completed a test animation of the zombie walking. You can view it here (http://www.gameprogrammer.net/flics/zombie.html).
Personally I think I've captured a convinsing walk cycle, although I realize the arms still are a bit too stiff at the moment.

Next time I'll have feet included :)

tux
30-08-2005, 10:49 PM
Next time I'll have feet included :)

you could just say he has baggy jeans on ;)

Traveler
15-09-2005, 10:50 PM
It's been a while since my last update so I thought I'd share a new screenshot, featuring my latest residential building.

http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/pgde4eprogress.jpg

I must say creating the graphics is a difficult and long process. It involves a lot more than just pushing a couple polygons. Before I even start with something I spent a few hours on the internet looking for textures, examples, getting ideas, stuff like that. For each building, modeling is about 2 to 3 hours. Adding up all the other things, I'd say its about 5 or 6 per building.

While the buildings go easier each time I make one, tiles are a whole different problem. But I'll spare you the details on that one, suffice to say it is a lenghty process. My respect to the guys who do this for their daily job has grown greatly :)

Hopefully I have more to show in a couple days

WILL
16-09-2005, 12:05 AM
Wow, your game is looking mighty good! You should keep your engine in mind for future projects.

OR go all out with the game after you win the competition. ;) ie. go commertial with it. :P

cairnswm
16-09-2005, 04:23 AM
I must agree its starting to look great.

I suggest you spend some time in the gamedev.net article section reading up on tile transitions. Making some simple transitions between the grass and the stone background would make an immediate improvement to the overall look and feel (and could be enough to then start coding the game :) )

Smotsholle
23-09-2005, 10:49 AM
It's looking really nice.
I see you've chosen the more realistic approach in game-making.
It's looking really great.

I'm looking forward to the end-result.
I really hope this project gets finished.