DOH!!!! ops:

I just checked my code and I was in opengl mode, I was thinking the engines are owned by the hull so I needed to translate the engines along with the hull, not on there own... DOH DOH DOH.

Well I got it working , just need to get some nice control mechanisms in now. the dbodyAddRelForce is a fantastic, it means I don't need to figure out which way is up etc, because the force is always applied relative to the body... fantastic

thanks for you help, i'll post a small demo once I have a basic control system done.