View Poll Results: Would you buy "Light" Edition of Delphi at $199? (Read thread for description!)

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  • NO and/or it's too much!

    14 58.33%
  • YES, but it's a bit high. (Post what you think is fair!)

    0 0%
  • YES!

    7 29.17%
  • YES, but I need the tools to run on ______ OS.

    3 12.50%
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Thread: How much would you pay for this concept for a "Light" Delphi Edition?

  1. #31
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwnd View Post
    You can ban me also if you want. If it makes you feel better.
    If you do this, then please delete all my threads and posts.
    You seem to miss the point. You broke the rules, don't do it again. Don't break the rules and you are good. I suggest you read them if this concerns you.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by phibermon View Post
    FastMM on the windows platform aside (are they still using that?) the Delphi compiler should be producing faster code which for certain CPU heavy games is always desirable and with IOS/Android devices it might even be essential in a small number of cases.
    Yes Delphi is still using FastMM (striplined version but you can always download full one from FastMM webpage).

    As for MacOS, iOS and Android in the future, they are using new compiler (LLVM compatible) with Active Reference Conting. I have seen lots of complaints about ARC implementation in new compiler as it causes significant slowdowns, especially in multithreading applications.
    Also some pepole say that there is a need to change lots of code for it to work OK with this new compiler (weak referencing, implementing of new DisposeOf command for destroying objects in some cases, etc.).
    Now I stil haven't done any tsting of this new compiler so I can't talk from my expiriences but from what I have read around the web it seems that Embarcadero maybe hasn't thought that through a lot. And what is worse it seems that Embarcadero is not realy prepared to listen to comunity suggestions on this matter (had seen a few flamewars on this matter).


    Quote Originally Posted by phibermon View Post
    Obviously somebody there thinks their compiler is superiour or it's continual development over a switch to FPC is foolish. So some clean hard facts about why the compiler is better than FPC, performance, stability etc would go a long way to improving the image.
    You have to understand that Embarcadero spent several years in developing of their own cross-platform compiler (currently only supports MacOS and iOS, but support for Android and Linux si planned) so it would be folish of them to just throw away all their work so far.
    Now I don't belive that at this stage their compiles can even compete with FPC one but in time this might change.


    Quote Originally Posted by phibermon View Post
    I will settle for nothing less than the total dominance of Object Pascal in the gaming industry with the secondary objective of crushing C++ into the metaphorical dirt from which it rose.
    Then I must dissapoint you. You see the Embarcadero isn't only developing Delphi but is also developing C++ Builder so no the C++ won't be crushed into metaphorical dirt.


    Quote Originally Posted by phibermon View Post
    I would one day like to release games for the PS4 and XBox360*2 (or whatever they're called) in a legal way. For various reasons Sony and Microsoft are unlikely to ever allow FPC compiled submissions. Em. are our only hope of having access to platforms like these in the future and indeed as yet unknown platforms with locked in commercial style development pathways.
    I may be wrong on this but I think the main requirement from various platforms like PlayStation XBox and others is automated garbage colection to prevent Memory Leaks to cocuring as the OSes on theese platforms are not so fool prof for running out of memory.
    I think this is also the main reason why Embarcadero is developing their own compiler which has such system already built in.


    Quote Originally Posted by marcov View Post
    And versioning (fragmentation of Delphi users over umpteen versions) is one of the worst problems of Delphi.
    I must agree with you on this.

  3. #33
    I think the thing that bothers me the most is that it is so difficult to find developers, and also to get new developers interested in the language. We've standardized on Object Pascal for all of our game dev and tool chain (with exceptions where it is absolutely necessary), but the few programmers I have pursued take one look at the language, available learning documentation (ie, the "learning curve"), and the paltry community support, and just say "thanks, but no thanks".

    This is one of the symptoms of the fallowness for which Embarcadero is, in greater part, responsible. The reason they have to charge so much with Delphi is because they sell so few units. Since they do next to nothing to evangelize the language (nor support anyone in doing so), there is very little "new blood" coming in under the banner, and as attrition impacts the community, there are even less upgrade sales, which are their bread and butter.

    What the OP community (and the OP game dev community, by extension) really needs is another Turbo Pascal. $49 (or whatever in today's dollars) for a compiler, an IDE, and some useful starter libraries. Add to that a good wiki (which the community could build), and a community forum and management, and I think they'd have little to no difficulty moving product.

    They just don't get the concept that they don't have to make money off of everyone else's success. Make a damn good roofing hammer (tool), make it affordable, and don't worry that it enables some roofer to earn a good living. Don't sell golden hammers... sell MORE hammers. Make MORE roofers out of people who might be interested in a career in roofing.

    That's why FPC/Lazarus is going to succeed where they have failed, and continue to fail. As the kinks get worked out of the "free" tools, Embarcadero is going to have a more difficult time convincing anyone of their value proposition.

    So, maybe we should turn this from a "tilting at windmills" effort, to focusing on what we need to improve FPC/Lazarus for our needs, which actually has a chance of happening, and is something *WE* can have a hand in, even directly, if we so desire.

    Note that I am not saying "don't bother".. quite the contrary. If you can get through to Embarcadero, great! However, it doesn't have to be the sole/exclusive effort. There's nothing wrong with pursuing all routes.. and whatever positive results come from any effort are good for all of us.

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