They do already have a product named Delphi Starter Edition priced at $199 usd: https://store.embarcadero.com/542/ca...?id=dQI9xhHa2E
Granted it's not ideal in many ways.
NO and/or it's too much!
YES, but it's a bit high. (Post what you think is fair!)
YES, but I need the tools to run on ______ OS.
Nothing can beat FREE, as in Free Pascal Compiler. For a bare bones Delphi compiler with some headers, 200 bucks is too much. FPC has 32/64 bits, has more targets and a very good library, and also can use 3rd party stuff. I think that 99 bucks is more affordable for any indie/young/starter developer for the extra tools like debuger. The IDE navigation features are cool, but anyone can use a good editor like notepad++ to write code as you don't have form designer, so that's not too important IMHO. If you ask me, I didn't include Indy in the packages, but Synapse could be a better choice. Again it's not important, just because the 3rd party availability.
And you might not use them, and that's cool, but you can't completely wave off all of the code editor features. Many of them inspired the incorporated features included into Lazarus. I find them essential for any of my serious game projects (with lots of source files and lines of code) and I personally wouldn't want to code without that. Notepad++ or otherwise doesn't do any of that so it doesn't come close to measuring up.
There could be more added to give more value to the whole package and/or pricing shift I'm sure. The strengths of course being the dev environment versus what else is available that others don't do as well. Despite Delphi on the whole (as it is now) not being up to what we've expected for years, doesn't mean that the core of the product doesn't have advantages it's self.
At face value sure the free alternatives are "better" as a concept, but it's when you start developing and getting into the deeper usage of the tools that's where the differences, pros and cons, come out. Believe me, I'm a fan of Free Pascal and Lazarus both, but I still believe Delphi can stand up to that and offer more to us if they change their strategy and thinking about indie developers.
Oh, like those wonderfully complete "Access Violation" error messages you get with Delphi?Or would you miss your SIGSEV and other incomplete error messages?
The code editing features are nice to haves, but are not absolutely essential to banging out code, which is what I often find myself doing in notepad++, which does have some nice features like syntax highlighting and folding, btw. It can also do function completion and parameter hinting if you provide it with the definitions.And you might not use them, and that's cool, but you can't completely wave off all of the code editor features. Many of them inspired the incorporated features included into Lazarus. I find them essential for any of my serious game projects (with lots of source files and lines of code) and I personally wouldn't want to code without that. Notepad++ or otherwise doesn't do any of that so it doesn't come close to measuring up.
* No, because I don't want to pay another $199 just to get support for the first year, having it "magically" added to my checkout cart for me without my permission or with any warning.
Yeah, been there, done that, didn't want the t-shirt, either (it was another $40).
I'm guilty for being a bit radical. I want to point that fancy IDE features are available on free libraries like cnwizard/cncomponents. To be honest, they are accessory comodities, but once you are used to them they are hard to replace (I remember the time when all my code was writen in sidekick, no highlights, no foldings, no regions, no code completion, just plain text). A good debugger, well, is something hard to find, and Delphi's one is the best (one of the reasons I still do things with Delphi).
And that is what bothers me as I get a fealing as they have no desire for listening to my ideas.
If i personally would be very serious about games and wouldnt care about forms at all i would probably buy it.
I clicked yes without reading first post.
199 is pretty alot but because i love Delphi, i could buy it, but i personally dont create only games but lots of tools also.
And Delphi is best with that ( i mean forms, VCL etc).
I cant live without that. if i could, i would code all my apps in C++ already.
Ask David, what about stripped down VCL (only standard stuff), WIN3.1 page etc, like in Delphi 1, no database stuff.
But also ability to install third party VCL components?
And of course form designer.
What I miss is an option "This is not realistic at all". If you see that Embacadero has abolished (real) discounts on the Pro product (they only give free goodies in the period just before a new version comes out, but no way you can get it cheaper than upgrade price (*)),
moreover they have stated several time that the feature richness of Turbo Delphi was a mistake.
They are essentially milking the platform for all that it is worth,hoping to sell each older Delphi user a $499 version sooner or later. Just look at the new mobile offerings. Do you see any new users? They are all old Delphians being tempted into dabbling a bit with multiplatform and hoping for mobile quick cash. (or get nagging users of their backs). That's the new business model. Anything cheap will only detract from that. Specially hoping for "no license limitation" is ridiculous.
Essentially the premise is "upgrade one more time, and we tempt you by bundling something that sounds good".
IMHO this is kidding yourself and wishing for the moon. It is essentially begging. And worse, begging for something that will never happen.
(*) the "You can't upgrade from this version" condition is luckily pretty fluid.
Disclosure: yes, I am a FPC member, but also a Delphi customer (for my day job) But that also means I have been a Borland watcher for over 15 years.
Last edited by marcov; 02-08-2013 at 07:52 PM.