View Poll Results: Would you buy "Light" Edition of Delphi at $199? (Read thread for description!)

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  • NO and/or it's too much!

    14 58.33%
  • YES, but it's a bit high. (Post what you think is fair!)

    0 0%
  • YES!

    7 29.17%
  • YES, but I need the tools to run on ______ OS.

    3 12.50%
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Thread: How much would you pay for this concept for a "Light" Delphi Edition?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by marcov View Post
    they have stated several time that the feature richness of Turbo Delphi was a mistake.

    Haha, its too late..
    I believe whole released that Turbo series was completely different people that now.
    If it was David, he's mad probably. Maybe hundreds of users using that pretty feature rich Turbo and wont buy XE4.

    I dont know who made a decision to make Turbo Series and make them free but he / she did a excellent thing.
    It shows how kind people can be.
    And this was Borland. I respect Borland for many things they did and still do, although i dont use their new products, they are making now. But if i look at the good "old" Turbo Pascal, Borland C++ 3.x etc, they are awesome.
    And they also made a free the C++ Builder 5 compiler as commandlinetools and Turbo C 2, TP 5.5 etc.
    All for free.

    But Embarcadero it seems wants to even find every copy of Turbos on the net and destroy them and take them away from licensed users. They just want money now and give nothing for free.

    Light Delphi without VCL and forms and form designer for 199$ is just crap.
    Dunno why i clicked yes. It could stay yes, if i can get VCL, forms and forms designer.

    Otherwise, forget it.

    Why i should choose crippled product for almost 200$ and without ability to use forms and VCL?

    I could take Lazarus and make all using that and for free.
    For what i must pay 199$ ? Debugger? Fancy IDE Nice Icons?
    Last edited by WILL; 05-08-2013 at 01:27 AM. Reason: No swearing. This is your warning.

  2. #22
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    hwnd: Everyone is allowed to share their personal opinions on PGD, but swearing in public forums is not acceptable.

    Read the Rules & Conduct section of the FAQ: http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/faq.php?faq=rules

    This is your warning and you have lost reputation points for poor etiquette.
    Jason McMillen
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  3. #23
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Proper public forum etiquette aside; I think we are starting to get into some pretty wild theories here. All I'm asking is if this product is something you would invest in.

    Lets try to leave the other stuff out of it for this thread. I want to avoid this poll becoming yet another "big ball of hairy" like all these other Delphi/EMBT discussion seem to go. I'm not challenging your own varied opinions, but lets try to stick to the topic at hand and focus on the product as specified here, it's self. This is indeed for very constructive purposes and not fodder for the witch burners.

    "You there! Put that torch out!"
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
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  4. #24
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcov View Post
    "This is not realistic at all"
    Is it not?

    Lets live in fantasy land, if you would be getting just what I'm asking for, would you feel it's worth it?
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
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  5. #25
    You can ban me also if you want. If it makes you feel better.
    If you do this, then please delete all my threads and posts.

    I already voted and cant vote anymore. Let it be.

    I apologize of course. Honestly. Just that statement that "feature richness of Turbos was mistake" made me mad. Embarc. shouldnt say like this.
    Last edited by hwnd; 05-08-2013 at 08:38 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by hwnd View Post
    You can ban me also if you want. If it makes you feel better.
    There is no need to exagerate.
    Banning you is not required just becouse you sweared once but we also can't just alow pepole to swear all over the place. If we do we will quickly lose all those members who feel that swearing has no place on the forums.
    So please chill out a bit. I know that you might feel a bit more stressed lately due to heat wave most of the Europe is expiriencing but still.


    Quote Originally Posted by hwnd View Post
    I already voted and cant vote anymore. Let it be.
    If you feel that you voted wrong please tell me how you voted and how you would like to vote and I'll change the pool results acordingly so you would feel better OK.


    Quote Originally Posted by hwnd View Post
    I apologize of course. Honestly. Just that statement that "feature richness of Turbos was mistake" made me mad. Embarc. shouldnt say like this.
    I can understand that this made you mad as it make me mad to but that is still not an excuse for your behavior.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by WILL View Post
    Lets try to leave the other stuff out of it for this thread. I want to avoid this poll becoming yet another "big ball of hairy" like all these other Delphi/EMBT discussion seem to go. I'm not challenging your own varied opinions, but lets try to stick to the topic at hand and focus on the product as specified here, it's self. This is indeed for very constructive purposes and not fodder for the witch burners.
    The problem is that plenty of this "other stuff" are legitimate obstacles to successfully creating and marketing such a product. Yeah, sure, let's engage in speculation about what we would like in a "Delphi Game Dev Version", then let's assume that we actually get it. Do you think all of these other issues are also magically going to go away?

    Ultimately, the crux of the problem is that Embarcadero doesn't have the Borland community anymore. They simply are not interested in it. Even if you can get them to listen, there is a serious disconnect with how they perceive the Pascal developer community, and until that changes, we can wish and poll and pontificate until the cows come home, but it will all be in vain.

    Maybe someone from Embarcadero can come address the issues.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Murmandamus View Post
    ...the crux of the problem is that Embarcadero doesn't have the Borland community anymore. They simply are not interested in it. Even if you can get them to listen, there is a serious disconnect with how they perceive the Pascal developer community, and until that changes, we can wish and poll and pontificate until the cows come home, but it will all be in vain.

    Maybe someone from Embarcadero can come address the issues.
    I absolutely agree with you! They think we are buying luxury, when we really need good tools! In the past, Borland maybe was never a good listener over community needs, but at least they provide us with affordable tools of great quality. We need that back at least!

  9. #29
    PGD Staff / News Reporter phibermon's Avatar
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    I suspect that this question was posed by Em. themselves via our very own illustrious PGD Don and if so then I've looked up from my breakfast cereal in interest.

    Assuming such a product would be able to compile for all of the supported platforms then in my personal opinion it would be a great step in the right direction.

    The price suggested is competitive, obviously the cheaper the better.

    I think Em. at this stage would benefit from publishing performance comparisons between their compiler output and FPC's output in some meaningful way.

    FastMM on the windows platform aside (are they still using that?) the Delphi compiler should be producing faster code which for certain CPU heavy games is always desirable and with IOS/Android devices it might even be essential in a small number of cases.

    Obviously somebody there thinks their compiler is superiour or it's continual development over a switch to FPC is foolish. So some clean hard facts about why the compiler is better than FPC, performance, stability etc would go a long way to improving the image.

    Not really interested in the VCL vs FCL etc as Delphi is obviously superiour on that front (apart from the lack of support for some essential platforms) As much as some people love Lazarus (myself included) - it's free and that makes it's shortcomings easier to live with. It's not a superiour coding experience over Delphi, in fact it's been a bloody pain in the backside for me on many occasions.

    With a lean and mean IDE as proposed, cross platform (at the very least Win/OSX and deeply preferable IOS as well) and even marginly superior performance, then I'd say it would make for a good purchase for those developers looking to rake in some cash for their work (and if you're doing so, $200 *is* cheap).

    Hobby devs with no commercial plans for their work are still left without much incentive however.

    --

    As stated, I really want Em. to do well on this front, I will settle for nothing less than the total dominance of Object Pascal in the gaming industry with the secondary objective of crushing C++ into the metaphorical dirt from which it rose. If that fails to happen, I will grudgingly tolerate an acceptance by the gaming industry for OOP as a viable cross platform language - but will still hurl random objects at C++ coders as and when I see them.

    In a more serious tone, I do think despite some of our misgivings about Em. and past decisions that some of us resent, we should try to make a more concerted effort to support them, even if it's only providing feedback like we're doing now.

    I would one day like to release games for the PS4 and XBox360*2 (or whatever they're called) in a legal way. For various reasons Sony and Microsoft are unlikely to ever allow FPC compiled submissions. Em. are our only hope of having access to platforms like these in the future and indeed as yet unknown platforms with locked in commercial style development pathways.

    That's not to say that they would or are even in a position to do so but without strong commercial representation of the language then we will forever be side-lined.
    Last edited by phibermon; 05-08-2013 at 03:04 PM.
    rats live on no evil star

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by WILL View Post
    Is it not?

    Lets live in fantasy land
    Then please an option "I wait till Microsoft changes back to Pascal". If you fantasize, don't set your targets too low :-)

    To be honest, I fail to see anything constructive in this poll, since it is all water under the bridge. They tried twice first with Turbo, then
    with Starter. Both were only available for a while, and had no affordable update paths, making their versioning issues even worse than of the pro/enterprise products.

    And versioning (fragmentation of Delphi users over umpteen versions) is one of the worst problems of Delphi.
    Last edited by marcov; 05-08-2013 at 10:02 PM.

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