2006 PGD Annual: Looks Like the Entries are being judged now

[Huehnerschaender]

everyone was able to read the scoring declarations during the contest. all i have seen there is 2.5 for the big boss. nowhere else is stated that points for the endboss are given. if this would have been stated, i guess some entrants would have set their priorities in another way.

but, please wait until you discuss points that are not visible right now.
we have seen in the past that the scoring has been entered on more than one day. so even if the order of the entrys has to do something with the scores, it could also mean that they are very incomplete yet and e.g. only sound is scored right now. just keep patient. i am, too.

greets,
dirk

[aidave]

imagine soccer finals
and the end score is 3-0
when they hand out the cup,
they give it to the team with no points.

"well, the other team didnt score any goals,
but they have nicer uniforms, and they didnt fall down,
plus they were so much fun to watch,
so we're giving them the cup instead"


hehe

Stage 6 (3 weeks): Apr 16th - May 7th

The last run for it!

Add to your game any way you like,the final result must have:

Goal #1 (2.5 Points) - Create a min. of 3 playable levels.
Goal #2 (2.5 Points) - Add game music and sound effects.
Goal #3 (2.5 Points) - Have a game splash screen showing your game's title.
Goal #4 (2.5 Points) - Add an in-game list of credits listing all involved of it's development.
Goal #5 (2.5 Points) - Have a minimum of 2 mini-bosses you must fight in the game.
Goal #6 (2.5 Points) - Have a minimum of at least 1 kind of enemy per level.
Goal #7 (2.5 Points) - Add an ending sequence of some kind.
Goal #8 (2.5 Points) - Add and design The Big Boss at the end of your game that is tougher than the mini-bosses.


FINAL SCORING: After all the stages are complete and the final submissions are uploaded the judges will then begin awarding each entry with scores for each of # categories; graphics, sound & music, sability & lack of bugs and fun factor.


Final Scoring:


Time Management (Stages 2-5 Goal Points Added) - Max. 100 Points x 2 Judges = Max. 200 Points

Graphics (Judged Score) - Max. 100 Points x 2 Judges = Max. 200 Points

Music & Sound (Judged Score) - Max. 100 Points x 2 Judges = Max. 200 Points

Game Stability (Judged Score) - Max. 100 Points x 2 Judges = Max. 200 Points

Fun & Innovation (Judged Score) - Max. 100 Points x 2 Judges = Max. 200 Points

Total Score - Time Management + Graphics + Music & Sound + Game Stability + Fun & Innovation = / 1000 Points

The 2.5*2 points is only a checkmark for "time management".
It is not a judged score.
The other 4 categories are for judging what we did during that time (made a boss).
Imagine: "The big boss cant be more than 0.5% of the total score, and you dont have to make one if you dont want"
That would be ridiculous, No one should spend any effort making a boss if that were true.
Further more the contest would not be named "THE BIG BOSS COMPETITION" :eh:

Anyways I dont want any games to be disqualified,
I shouldnt have implied that, sorry. ops:

They should simply be scored in the spirit of the theme,
Thats all i ask

my 2c

[Imp5]

i'm sure you can understand why. after all,
it is called "THE BIG BOSS COMPETITION"

please consider this !!! :?

There was no any description of bosses from rule-writers. I’m not sure that everyone has similar vision of “the game boss”.

[Imp5]

Anyways I dont want any games to be disqualified,
I shouldnt have implied that, sorry. ops:

What if judges read this topic and thought "Sounds fun! It is something new... It’s maybe great idea to disqualify somebody."
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Huehnerschaender]

In my opinion, the intention of this competition was to write a game engine, which is capable of many features like levels, enemy classes, boss classes, menu classes etc. so that the competitors have a fundament to make a complete game out of it.

If the endboss was worth so much for the compo, then there should have been some additional judgement criterias like:

- innovative kind of boss
- how complex is it
- do you need special tactics to finish it
- does it use a special kind of AI
- etc
- etc
- etc

But all we can read is:

Goal #8 (2.5 Points) - Add and design The Big Boss at the end of your game that is tougher than the mini-bosses.

Tougher..... that could e.g. mean: It has more life points... thats it...

Of course, anyone who wanted (and had the time) to design an endboss, tried to create something that looks more powerful than the minibosses or general enemys. But except of this Goal #8, the endboss is mentioned in no way as being a part of judgement.

Just my thoughts... I have my endboss and I made it more powerful than my other enemys, it uses his own AI and it uses several bossparts, so I don't have to be frightened or something from boss-judgement. I just want to mention how I interpreted the goals and judgement criterias during the competition. The endboss was the last thing on my todo-list, because I really thought (and I still do so) that the endboss is only worth 2.5 points per judge.

Greetings,
Dirk

[aidave]

In my opinion, the intention of this competition was to write a game engine

Then it would be called "THE GAME ENGINE COMPETITION"

the endboss is only worth 2.5 points per judge

Goal #1 (5 Points) - Make a basic playable game engine.

If the big boss is only worth 5 points, then the game engine is only worth 10.
In a score out of 1000 points, something is odd with that logic.

[Huehnerschaender]

no, it isn`n because it is not out of 1000 points, but out of 200.
the rest 800 points belong to the judgement of the whole product in my opinion. graphics eg,you can`t give 200 points just because the endboss looks good and the rest loooks crappy. stability, how to judge the stability just taking a look at bosses? or sound?
there are 5 categories which all are meant for the whole game in my opinion. there is not a single category which can be used just for the boss(es).
otherwise we should have just designed bossfights without other content around it.

[aidave]

you can`t give 200 points just because the endboss looks good

exactly! i completely agree.
now take that logic and apply to the other areas:

you can't give 200 points just because the level looks good

those points include the boss AND the level
no boss = no graphics = no points
therefore a game with no boss cant win all the points



simple analogy:

a chef competition
where contestants cook a steak as the main course,
instead i make a really awesome salad and no steak.
even if it had points for how good the food looks,
and my salad looks better than the steaks...
that doesnt matter,
theres no steak so i cant get enough points to win

any "XYZ COMPETITION" is just that:
a competition to see who makes the best XYZ.
everything else is important too, but its secondary.

this isnt the "best levels competition"
it isnt the "fun graphics competition"
its not the "stablest game competition"
its the [size=24px]"Big Boss Competition"[/size]
if you still dont believe me, click here

[Huehnerschaender]

you can't give 200 points just because the level looks good

those points include the boss AND the level
no boss = no graphics = no points
therefore a game with no boss cant win all the points

I agree, but it can still achieve MORE points than a game with a boss.

If the level looks good without a boss he gets e.g. 160 points (e.g. -40 because boss is missing).
The game with the boss looks crappy and gets 80 points in total.

Anyway, I think this whole discussion is nonsense! Why?

- Only what the judges say is important, no matter what you think, no matter what I think
- There is no single indication that a game without a boss wins
- There is no single final scoring visible right now
- Only thing we see is a different order of the entrys than the initial one, which indicates NOTHING (what if database is indexed by "last edited date"? What if Tanx and Arctic Macrob got judgement from both judges and Blocked got only one judgement right now?

Why are you so upset? Just sit down and drink a cup of tea, this may help

But there is one thing which itches under my fingernails:

There are several hints/advices/statements of the compo-initiators which say that if you don't reach one or more goals, you still can win.
It doesn't say if you don't manage to include an endboss than you missed your chance. One goal is to include/design a boss (again: worth only 2.5 points/judge). If you only missed that, you still have a CHANCE to WIN the compo! Thats how I read the rules. BIG BOSS is only a heading. The content of the entrys is declared very misunderstandable in the GOALS.

If you still dont believe me, click http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com...?p=details&c=1 and please show me the rule which says that an endboss is essential for winning the compo.

Again, these are just my thoughts. I don't want to take party for anyone. This is just how I personally read the rules. And as you know I am no native english speaking guy, so please correct me if I misinterpreted something.

Personally, I am waiting now and keep myself out of this discussion, because it really makes no sense The judges DO know how and what to judge.... I am sure!

Greetings and good luck again,
Dirk

[idee_fixe]

I think we should leave this to the judges for now; they know what criteria they are applying, and I am sure they will do the utmost to be fair and consistent. There's no sense beating this dead horse - for all we know, it isn't even a horse!