Looking for a real good RTS!

**NecroDOME** · 20-11-2007, 10:23 AM

Sounds nice. A community project. Due lack of time and work on my own engine I will not be able to help code, but will certainly follow the progress. And maybe help on working out some ideas.

Well... now we are talking aboot projects, how/when is the next compo? (yeah I, not the right thread to ask... but do it anyway

... im a bit lazy today)

**Robert Kosek** · 20-11-2007, 03:14 PM

Well, maybe I could make something that works as a map "engine" for an isometric RTS. But it'd take some doing to get that in motion at the moment.

**pstudio** · 20-11-2007, 09:46 PM

I've just ordered 3 books on RTS programming for 85 $ (I'm cheap so I bought one book used for 4 $). However I ordered the from Amazon.com so I'll probably have to pay 100 $ in customs.
Unfortunately I won't have time to read them before Christmas (If I'm optimistic), but I'm looking foreward to study the finer aspects of RTS programming. It must be more fun than what I'm studying at the university.

btw while we're talking abot rts I ran into this imo amusing joke.

**WILL** · 21-11-2007, 03:41 AM

Throw up some titles/ISBN #s! We might want to have a look at them too.

I think the most interesting/complex part of the RTS would be the computer AI. Having a computer opponent determine what to make and where to put it so that it gives it an advantage and then there is the combat element as a whole separate or even better succinct aspect.

I think the AI would take the longest to do, but it would likely be the fun part of the project. Current RTS AI [size=9px](ok as of say Pre-AoE3/C&C:Generals just because those are the latest RTS I've played and I have the same general issue with them too)[/size] kinda sucks imo. There is no real advanced planning or attack plans as a human would have. It's more along the lines of pile up some of X and then some of Y and then just a few Z and off they go attacking in whatever general area calculates to the greatest threat.

No searching, no layered gameplan, but build rush, build rush... and ain't it funny how they ALWAYS know where you are.. hmmm :scratch:

Yup current day RTS AI sucks. Can't wait for someone with some actual strategy experience puts the big S into RTS.

**NecroDOME** · 21-11-2007, 12:27 PM

If I'm home I could check if I can dig something up on e-books. I downloaded some a few months back and never looked at it again.

However, I once had planes for making an RTS as school project, but since i'm not in sk00l (w00t) any more and have the flight game planned it's just an idea. Zhooibaal also has great ideas on RTS games, so I can ask him to join this thread.

**Robert Kosek** · 21-11-2007, 02:51 PM

What I always enjoyed in AoK was to wall in early. Then scouts could probe, and probe, and probe and find just the same old walls--but no towncenter.

Didn't stop the attacks, of course, but it really made it hard for them to choose a place to hit when I threw down that second layer of walls and gates.

The good old days.

Unfortunately it isn't just the AI anymore, in AoE 3 the whole concept of a card system ruins the game. As Russians I can get some 40+ Streltets in the first fifteen minutes of playtime without paying, and that's in addition to the ones I create! Talk about your overkill. Soon as you unlock Mercs, at least for the Russians, it gives you something to do with your stockpiles to reinforce your amazing rushing army. (Micromanaging for the boring win...)

I haven't played AoE3 since its release, I hate its balance so much.

What I've been looking into for AI lately is fuzzy AI, when combined with things like state machines, or a cousin thereof, it makes for an even better "brain". Not to mention floating point math is really fast on modern systems.

I'm going to have to try something after all this... :roll: I'll have to dig out Phoenix and try it with Lazarus, and hope Andreaz fixes my PNG-8 import bug.

**Zhooibaal** · 21-11-2007, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by NecroDOME

Zhooibaal also has great ideas on RTS games, so I can ask him to join this thread.

So you did hehe. Let me dig in my mind archives. I always have ideas but barely ever write anything down, maybe I should do that more often

**pstudio** · 21-11-2007, 03:40 PM

Throw up some titles/ISBN #s! We might want to have a look at them too. Wink

Well the most interesting is probably this one.
Ofcourse I can't say anything about the quality of this book yet, but it seems to cover the general things about building a RTS.

**savage** · 21-11-2007, 06:10 PM

Is Syndicate considered an RTS?

**WILL** · 21-11-2007, 06:43 PM

I've never got a chance to play it [size=9px](and it doesn't seem to want to work on my system even in DOSBox perhaps due to my screen size?)[/size]

BUT an RTS (or Real Time Strategy) is defined by the fact that you are playing all the factors of the battle. Resource gathering, building up your offensive forces & defensive forces/structures and of course the combat it's self.

On the other hand there is RTT (which is Real Time Tactical) which is merely only a part of what an RTS would be and usually only focuses on the combat aspect of the game.

I was under the impression that Syndicate was of the 'Squad game' genre though. Which is a bit different, but I guess it fits into the grander Strategy category of games.

Ah, all this will be like music is going these days, it'll be so mixed that there will be this whole new layer of genre that may or may not take some doing to descern where it would most fit under older categories.