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Thread: Will Delphi die?

  1. #11

    Will Delphi die?

    This tcpa thing is pretty scary, but somehow I doubt something like that can/will actually happen. I don't think microsoft can really decide for us what we do with our pc's.

    "This piece of Operating-System-Integrated software is going to determine what you are allowed to do with "your" PC."

    Sure, so I buy this new windows Palladium and all of a sudden I can't play my games anymore, run Delphi or every other program I used to run, because they lack the needed serial numbers? Sure...

    "So, you're a developer and want to create your own programs? Of course, with a certified IDE you're able to write your own source code. But it's not possible to execute your programs you just developed - unless you're going to certify them (which costs about $100.000!)."

    Not very likely. There are how many developers? Does microsoft really expect us to buy a $100k license? What about software companies? They can close their doors if they have to buy licenses for every employee.

    All this might work in a world where communism rules, but there are certain rules even microsoft has to obey to.

  2. #12

    Will Delphi die?

    I'm not sure how many people know this, but I've seen it happen far too often in the business world. When you read about all these outrageous concepts and plans, people mainly focus on the worst of the worst... things that like ARosendal said would never pass. That's the whole point. They throw those "we know these will never get by" project ideas in to deter from the fact there are a lot of smaller things (things you'd willingly allow in instead of those big ones). It shifts the gerenal audience's focus.

    Part of what the Palladium system is setup to do is to help e-business' with piracy. Say you buy some software online, and download it. And you selected single user license. Well you better have downloaded it on the machine you wanted to use it on, because Palladium won't let you install it on another machine. Same goes for MP3s, etc. Really have a good look at some of the articles out there. And check out this one on Windows XP (to see just why I'm staying away from it).

    And Bobby, can you tell me why the Windows XP EULA states that I can't use remote connection programs other that the ones included with Windows XP or why the Media Player 7.0 EULA says that for my own security, and the security of others, by installing the program I completely agree and consent to automatic behind the scenes updates to Windows whever I run the application (as Microsoft sees fit).

    It's bullshit like that, that has people "hating" Microsoft as you say.
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  3. #13

    Will Delphi die?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARosendal
    Sure, so I buy this new windows Palladium and all of a sudden I can't play my games anymore, run Delphi or every other program I used to run, because they lack the needed serial numbers? Sure...
    No it will be a slow shift... in the beginning you can decide if you're in trusted mode or not. But the more applications require the trusted mode and the older the not-trused old software becomes the less problems you have with running trusted mode. And some years later you won't care if m$ says not-trusted software isn't supported anymore... It's died out anyways, along with a lot of free and shareware.

    But the problem is that you've lost the controll over you pc in that process

    Quote Originally Posted by ARosendal
    Not very likely. There are how many developers? Does microsoft really expect us to buy a $100k license? What about software companies? They can close their doors if they have to buy licenses for every employee.
    not for every employee! for every product they want to release... no problems for big software-companys. Their gain is much bigger because it prevents piracy.
    At the beginning the licensing might even be free (like veri-sign was in the beginning) to establish the procedure. M$ war-funds are almost without limits... they can do such things. Sometimes later they will say: "The service is costly, you understand that WE don't pay it anymore?" But than it's to late for you to decide that you don't like it...
    As a freeware developer you have to stop develloping....

    Quote Originally Posted by ARosendal
    All this might work in a world where communism rules, but there are certain rules even microsoft has to obey to.
    Don't expect your govermant to say this is illegal. As long as they get a general-key to your encrypted data (which mA§ will grant tham for sure) they are perfectly happy because they benefit! The american governmant even tried to make a law which permits using non trusted systems in the future. Just like they tried to permit using pgp because they have no chance to decrypt it. (I'm not perfectly sure on that... i just think i've read something like that.)

    I agree I'm very pessimistic here.... but if we don't fight against it it might happen!
    programming is more than copy and paste!

  4. #14

    Will Delphi die?

    i agree with lithander's opinion about TCPA. it cannot be the ultimate solution, but let's assume another scenario: what would happen, when the software industry will not fight against software piracy?

    even today the software industry has to compensate the great loss of incomings. and in times, where you can download any software you want, I see the future for commercial software without TCPA und Palladium pessimistic as well. And it is much worse. The software piracy affects the cinema and music branch, too.

    So the question must be: Which actions has to be made in order to prevent a collapse of the software- and multimedia-market? And further: Are there any possibilities at all, without intrude the user's right of privacy and freedom? I would say: Unfortunately NO!
    http://www.martinpyka.de

  5. #15

    Will Delphi die?

    The loss software companies, the music industry and the video industry has to cope with is because their products are too expensive! Look at a CD here in the Netherlands you pay about 23 Euro for a single CD, in the past you paid 40,-- gulden (if we calculate that to Euro it's about 18 Euro) and I always felt that, that was too expensive for a CD!

    Software packages and games have exactly the same problem, look at a good game, you pay about 49 Euro for a game you will play about 1 to 2 months and then you finished it and you need to buy a new one and in comparison to software packages games are cheap, take a look at a good software package like VMWARE you pay $329 (about the same amount in euro) just to run you windows version in linux and vica versa and it doesn't even work spotless!

    If they lower the prices of software, games, music and videos then more people will buy that instead of making illegal copies!

    It's just like I said with Delphi, they need to make a cheap, limited version (like the old personal version that you could buy with D3) with which you can sell software, but you are obligated to include the delphi/borland/inprise logo so you'll advertise with your software for them too!

    In short again, I think what Microsoft plans to do is pure criminality, they try to invade both our privacy and our control over our own pc... If we continue this movement, then we will have to get something of a computer driverslicense from microsoft before we can even use a pc!
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  6. #16

    Will Delphi die?

    but the prices of software games are mainly justified. In the recent appeared gamestar magazin here in germany, there is an article about the problems of the german game-industry. fact is, that a company has to sell at least 150.000 copies of there game with a price of 50 EUR, to be on the safety site.

    It's just like I said with Delphi, they need to make a cheap, limited version (like the old personal version that you could buy with D3) with which you can sell software, but you are obligated to include the delphi/borland/inprise logo so you'll advertise with your software for them too!
    I'm not sure, if this is practicable. In my opinion the necessity of cheap but high quality development tools is not so great, that Borland would get the full development-expense. Will you really get at least the double number of customer when you halve the price?
    http://www.martinpyka.de

  7. #17

    Will Delphi die?

    I think we are moving too fast here, jumping from one topic(though interesting) to another.

    Question is, will Delphi die? (By Microsofts hands) I don't think so. It seems to me that Delphi is a RAD tool that has proven itself.
    And if MS gets his hands on it, I don't think MS will stop developing it.

  8. #18

    Will Delphi die?

    i don't think so either. there are a lot of delphi-user in the industry who are economic enough for microsoft to continue the development.

    but furthermore I cannot imagine that M$ will undertake Borland.
    http://www.martinpyka.de

  9. #19

    Re: Will Delphi die?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSSJ
    Borland is moving to .NET so will Delphi be a stupid .NET rad?
    I mean, will Delphi have only the .NET compiler (and not the native Win32 compiler)?
    I asked another question, it was: will Borland kill native Delphi's Win32 compiler moving Delphi to .NET?

  10. #20

    Will Delphi die?

    Marty - as far as I'm concerned, the "Standard Edition" thing without the restrictive license would be not so much a matter of increasing the customer base but just staying competitive. Since they abandoned the lower-priced, *unrestricted* Standard edition I've been very seriously considering abandoning Delphi. I simply can't justify spending many hundreds of dollars for every upgrade when there are so many other free and cheap options - many of which also lack Delphi's other problem of being closely tied to a specific company. C++ maybe be a pain in the ass but it's not quite as bad for games (as opposed to GUI app develpment), it's free in many forms, and you can write C++ for every significant game platform in existence. Even the "gold standard" Visual C++ IDE is available for under $100 (doesn't come with their best optimizing compiler, but there is no restriction on selling your app unless you're using the academic version). I've also considered using C#/.NET, which is also free if you download the SDK from MS and download the SharpDevelop IDE. The code is very much like Delphi, too.

    IMHO, Borland is shooting themselves in the foot by making the financial barrier to new shareware developers way too high - a freaking THOUSAND DOLLARS before you're allowed to sell the app you create. They probably make more from licensing to established companies than to "newbies" or low-sales shareware developers, but the pool of competent Delphi developers is going to start to diminish the more expensive and restrictive the licensing gets. They need to make it cheap and easy for students and newbie shareware people to jump on the Delphi bandwagon, but they're going totally the opposite direction.

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