Reintroduction to CodeGear

[LP]

I consider being suitable for both procedural and OOP programming a strong point of Pascal.

Another strength of Pascal in its procedural paradigm is that it's pseudo-structural in fact. It's one of the few languages that inherently provides encapsulation without the need of OOP.

Take a look at a simple Pascal unit. In the "interface" section you can have variables, procedures and so on - similar to what you will be having in public section of an object. In similar way, "implementation" section contains private code, variables that is used by the unit internally. It has also initialization/finalization sections which work like constructors/destructors.

Thus, a single unit is already a limited object construct, which allows you to develop object-oriented applications without actually using what we formally call classes.

Actually, I don't think you need to promote Pascal langauge itself. I'd promote more the framework, the compiler capabilities and the IDE. Unfortunally, current Delphi implementation falls short in compiler area when compared to FreePascal.

Delphi's still strong point is IDE, but honestly, after using latest Visual Studio you start to see the developers of Delphi as pawns who have fallen behind the marketing of .NET. A simple hint in Delphi code editor takes 2-5 seconds to load, while in Visual Studio it's instant. An IDE should be as much responsive as possible, so on this matter, .NET *is not the right tool for the job*.

[VilleK]

Delphi's still strong point is IDE, but honestly, after using latest Visual Studio you start to see the developers of Delphi as pawns who have fallen behind the marketing of .NET. A simple hint in Delphi code editor takes 2-5 seconds to load, while in Visual Studio it's instant. An IDE should be as much responsive as possible, so on this matter, .NET *is not the right tool for the job*.

As far as I know, both VS and Delphi IDEs are still written in native code and although some extensions are .NET-based, the editor is not. And IMO .NET performance is good enough for making a code-completion feature, as long as you design your code carefully with performance in mind. But I don't want to start a native code vs. managed code-war here

[LP]

As far as I know, both VS and Delphi IDEs are still written in native code and although some extensions are .NET-based, the editor is not. And IMO .NET performance is good enough for making a code-completion feature, as long as you design your code carefully with performance in mind. But I don't want to start a native code vs. managed code-war here

No argument there. However, there is no reason to mix native and managed code. You use more memory (for .NET assemblies) and have to wait when certain feature is loaded. It's like they couldn't write refactoring code on the native platform.

[rif]

Half the world who are inexperienced with OBJECT Pascal still believe it to be a solely procedural language. The other forty percent or so are just arrogant and insulting about it.

I understand what you are saying, you could as well add that many people will say "nobody uses Delphi or Pascal, all wellknown programs are written in C, C++ or Java".
While Delphi is not the most used programming tool/language there is a lot of applications that has been written in Delphi, people just do not know.
That is why we over on the Delphi Wiki started the list "Good quality applications built with Delphi".
http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/Good_Qu...lt_With_Delphi
You are welcome to add more (good) applications to the lists there.
Delphi is mainly strong in utility, productivity and office software, whereas an area like games development is a weaker point. That is why it is good to see all the effort people here on PGD is putting into game development. Once in a while there comes out some good looking games with great playbility.
Doei RIF

[cronodragon]

I find this interesting:
http://delphi.about.com/od/delphifor...piracydnet.htm

[rif]

It's like they couldn't write refactoring code on the native platform.

CodeGear/Borland had the implementation for the refactoring in Java. They then used J# to add it to the IDE. It is really twisted but MS has dropped J# development/support but CodeGear stick to using it. It will be a happy day when they get this reimplemented in Delphi code and can junk the J#. However currently there is much more important features to add to Delphi, so they should certainly not waste time on this for the time being. Coming soon: Generics, Unicode, a help system that works again? and a bit later 64bit.
Doei RIF

[Robert Kosek]

Half the world who are inexperienced with OBJECT Pascal still believe it to be a solely procedural language. The other forty percent or so are just arrogant and insulting about it.

I understand what you are saying, you could as well add that many people will say "nobody uses Delphi or Pascal, all wellknown programs are written in C, C++ or Java".
While Delphi is not the most used programming tool/language there is a lot of applications that has been written in Delphi, people just do not know.
That is why we over on the Delphi Wiki started the list "Good quality applications built with Delphi".
http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/Good_Qu...lt_With_Delphi
You are welcome to add more (good) applications to the lists there.
Delphi is mainly strong in utility, productivity and office software, whereas an area like games development is a weaker point. That is why it is good to see all the effort people here on PGD is putting into game development. Once in a while there comes out some good looking games with great playbility.
Doei RIF

I understand what you say as well, and understand that I am a longtime user of Delphi and Object Pascal (more or less). I have used Delphi or other Pascal compilers for no less than nine years, running on ten now. I started with Delphi 4.

I am not arguing about switching away, that isn't what I want. What I want are better compilers for Pascal, better stability, and better affordability. But also, to extend and grow the development community you cannot expect sales without some effort towards curing the negative view of the language as a whole.


I hear you saying .NET is slow, Yuriy, but in my experiments with Chrome and .NET I have found this to not be the case. There are always bottlenecks and the language and framework dictate the location of these. Thus far, every bottleneck I've found has a shortcut that provides, at least, a decent level of speed. For games, perhaps it is a little slow--but I'm leaning toward making a roguelike at the moment and turnbased games don't have to process as fast as real-time ones. At least, unlike delphi, I can develop for Mono and put it on any system that supports it.

[rif]

A video on the advantages of working with Object Pascal would come in handy if someone was so inclined to make one.

I can not think of a strictly promotional video, but there are some good instructional videos from 3D Buzz + other that go quite a way to show what Delphi is capable of and get more people started programming in Delphi.

Video list here:
http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/Delphi_Videos

Doei RIF

[rif]

I am not arguing about switching away, that isn't what I want. What I want are better compilers for Pascal, better stability, and better affordability. But also, to extend and grow the development community you cannot expect sales without some effort towards curing the negative view of the language as a whole.

I think the best way to promote Delphi and FreePascal is simply to write better applications with it, make videos and write articles on the net on how to solve programming problems. When you can make it easy to get started programming Delphi/Pascal and can show some famous software product developed in Delphi, more people will chose it.

Doei RIF

[LP]

I hear you saying .NET is slow, Yuriy, but in my experiments with Chrome and .NET I have found this to not be the case. There are always bottlenecks and the language and framework dictate the location of these.

No, this wasn't what I said. I simply pointed out that I'd like to see the whole IDE using only one platform, not several simultaneously. If I develop purely Win32 applications, I might not want to install .NET just to run the compiler on my machine. Of course, it's one of these situations where you have no other choice than "to obey", but it's still an inconvenience. Most importantly, because as it was already mentioned, the majority of IDE doesn't need .NET Framework.

For instance, I never had Java runtimes installed for past 4 years and it would be the same for .NET, if it wasn't for BDS 2005 / Turbo Delphi.

I think the best way to promote Delphi and FreePascal is simply to write better applications with it, make videos and write articles on the net on how to solve programming problems. When you can make it easy to get started programming Delphi/Pascal and can show some famous software product developed in Delphi, more people will chose it.

I think if CodeGear can persuade some institutions to give classes in Delphi/ObjectPascal, it will greatly improve awareness and potential customer base for their products. They could even give some of the courses themselves. Having many Delphi-made applications is a plus, but people will still have to invest learning Delphi.

P.S. I somehow feel more CodeGear emphasis on their Delphi for PHP (I've been getting some e-mails in my spambox about CodeGear showing off their productline in nearby city). Sounds like they are still not focusing much on Win32/64. Too bad.