Increasing traffic on PGD...

[SilverWarior]

Actually I think teaching programming by itself is not a very useful tactic here because newbies have many options to choose from: C# and XNA, C/C++, Perl, Python, Lua, Java and so on. This is what institutions are for, and dealing with institutions, I think, is quite out of scope for PGD commuinity.

I disagree with you. I myself am stil a newbie in game development (hasn't published any game jet) and my programing skils also arent very advanced.
When I found first article wich suposinlgy would teach me how to make my fist game in Delphi I hardly understood it. Reason for that is that at the time my programing skils were still quite bad. I still hasn't understand some basics at the time (namely classes and class inheritance). So even after reading that article for few times I still didn't knew how to make my own game. I only figured that out about a year later when I was reading another article about creating custom components (components heavilly rely on classes). Actually at that time I had no intention for writing games, becouse I thought they are out of my reach becouse of me lacking knowledge. If someone would have told me then that I requre proper knowledge of handling classes, today I might have already some game finished.
That's why I'm including this knowledge in my article becouse I suspect, that many potential game developers are turned away on the start, becouse they don't understand neccesary basics, and noone tels them that they have to.
Anywhay it is not neccesary that you always write about programing basics in your article, but atleast do point the readaer to another article wich would help him understand yours.

Also if we don't take atleast some time for teaching some programing, pepole might turn to other programing languages instead, becouse they might find other forums who do so.

The main reason why I decided to become programer becouse I wanted to make my own game similar to some other but much better (don't recal wich one). So basicaly if I wouln't be so stuborn by nature I would have already given up long time ago.

[Eric]

Actually I think teaching programming by itself is not a very useful tactic here because newbies have many options to choose from: C# and XNA, C/C++, Perl, Python, Lua, Java and so on.

I disagree, this is because they still have choice that you can capture new recruits.Though in that reguard Delphi starts with a severe disadvantage as there is no "free" option anymore besides Lazarus.

Also sites like turbo & Delphi3D did thrive a lot on "teaching", just not programming, but games, Ai, graphics, etc.

This is what institutions are for, and dealing with institutions, I think, is quite out of scope for PGD commuinity.

I disagree here too, institutions are in practice either universities (where they usually don't have any serious grasp of game programming) or work-sponsored (and bosses ain't gonna pay for game programming).

My posts were about luring *existing* Delphi developers in here

The problem is that a good deal of existing Delphi developpers are on old versions, sometimes very old (Delphi 7), and XE2 caters to just a niche of the Delphi users.
Even though I wrote some articles about XE2 during the time my trial lasted, I'm still primarily on XE.

XE2 doesn't have any free version, so the situation just isn't like in the turbo & Delphi3D days, when people that found something interesting could go test it.

IMHO this goes beyond any raw cost consideration as it affects mindset: people just don't have the same incentive/willingness promoting "for free" a tool that isn't free.

Specifically for the forums, I would recommend joining together all graphic's libraries forums as well as compilers since there have not been much activity

Agreed.

[Cybermonkey]

Sorry, if I barge in as I am rather new here, but please do not drop support for Freepascal. I am not interested in Delphi but searching for good tutorials for FPC. Most good libraries (e.g. Asphyre) seem for Delphi only. The only exception is ZenGL.
It was mentioned that in the Language Stats http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/conte...pci/index.html Delphi is quite popular but as far as I can read the item is named

Delphi/Object Pascal

which refers to Freepascal/Lazarus as well (Object Pascal).
Well, I am also interested in mobile developmet (Android/iOS) but again: if a tutorial is made please with Freepascal.
Just my two cents from a newbie.

[Carver413]

Educating new members is the best way to insure new members stick around. most of us don't have the luxury of school training. and what classes are out there for delphi/fpc users anyway. any good group takes care of it's own. what is really needed is a modern opengl code base to work from some sort of wikki to organize it. DGL has a nice setup but most of us don't speak German and goggle does a poor job of translating.

[Eric]

the item is named which refers to Freepascal/Lazarus as well (Object Pascal)

IIRC the FreePascal entry was merged not long ago, but there is still a "Pascal" entry, and I have no idea what it covers.

[LP]

Sorry, if I barge in as I am rather new here, but please do not drop support for Freepascal. I am not interested in Delphi but searching for good tutorials for FPC.

How did you infer from me suggesting to promote more materials for Delphi, to drop support for FreePascal? Seems like a irrelevant thesis fallacy.

I disagree, this is because they still have choice that you can capture new recruits.Though in that reguard Delphi starts with a severe disadvantage as there is no "free" option anymore besides Lazarus.

I don't recall that there was free version of Delphi before Delphi 6 personal and it was still popular. Also, you may wonder why many developers, myself included, are paying a thousand dollars (!) for a product, where they could have simply used a supposedly free alternative.

In addition, Embarcadero is offering (similar to what Borland did) Delphi versions to academic institutions at huge discounts (90%-97% discount).

I disagree here too, institutions are in practice either universities (where they usually don't have any serious grasp of game programming) or work-sponsored (and bosses ain't gonna pay for game programming).

This is a common misconception. There are many institutions, including the one I was in, that have a very strong software engineering program. This program makes you competent not only for game development, but for any software development in general. After you finish, you can also optionally opt for M. Sc and even D.Sc. degrees, which are highly competent as well. Yes, studying is not easy here at ITESM, you will probably have to study overtime, working on projects at night and so on, but it's totally worth it.

Sure, there are some universities where some teachers stink, but this is part of life. In one point or another, you will have a lousy teacher, a business partner that is a jerk, a boss that stinks or even a president that sucks. This, however, does not mean that you should put away the education.

Just by getting first university degree, you can get a work as software engineer for an average salary of $55,000 ($4500 per month for Software Engineer) in US. A higher position requiring more advanced degree gives $115,000 ($9500 per month for Software Architect). Average salary for Game developer is around $80,000.

Also, many universities worldwide have a scholarship program. In my own case, 12 years ago when I went to study Computing Systems Engineering, I've got scholarships from many universities in US, Canada and UK, many of which included 100% of study coverage plus staying expenses. This is still the common case for many students that are wiling to put all their effort to learn and build their careers.

Being a software engineer, learning new/different language is a trivial task, since programming language now is just a way to translate your architecture/design into code (and there are tools that can help you).

Educating new members is the best way to insure new members stick around. most of us don't have the luxury of school training. and what classes are out there for delphi/fpc users anyway. any good group takes care of it's own.

Sorry, but what you imply is simply laziness. If you have enthusiasm, interest and are wiling to learn, you can always get a scholarship in one of universities with a good computer science program. Here in Mexico, lower class students with family earnings of less than 1000 $MXN per week ($80 per week) can still get to the university almost for free and if they are talented, even get paid to study (!). [Granted, some prefer to consume drugs and shoot their neighbors instead, but that's another story]

Plus, if you get to study to university, you can always opt for Delphi Academic Program and pay roughly $100 for a Professional version.

[Cybermonkey]

Sorry, I answered to the post and hit accidently the back button of my browser so everything is lost. Anyway, I wrote that I am not a studied man but a simple hobby programmer. I can hardly find Freepascal ressources for game development in the net but Delphi and Delphi everywhere. So, maybe one can empathize my fear that this place will be pure Delphi eventually.

[SilverWarior]

Sorry, if I barge in as I am rather new here, but please do not drop support for Freepascal. I am not interested in Delphi but searching for good tutorials for FPC. Most good libraries (e.g. Asphyre) seem for Delphi only. The only exception is ZenGL.

Nobody sad anything about dropping support for FPC. We only talked about increasing support for Delphi. The reason for this the fact that latly most articles are just FPC oriented.
As for the libraries most of them can be ported and used in FPC quite easily. Yes the Asphyre is exception du the fact that it relies on some Embarcaderos libraries wich ships with Delphi. But as far as I know there is a plan to include FPC support for Asphyre in the future.

Sorry, but what you imply is simply laziness. If you have enthusiasm, interest and are wiling to learn, you can always get a scholarship in one of universities with a good computer science program. Here in Mexico, lower class students with family earnings of less than 1000 $MXN per week ($80 per week) can still get to the university almost for free and if they are talented, even get paid to study (!). [Granted, some prefer to consume drugs and shoot their neighbors instead, but that's another story]

Plus, if you get to study to university, you can always opt for Delphi Academic Program and pay roughly $100 for a Professional version.

Here in Slovenia none of our universities doesn't teach programing in any of the pascal dialects. All that you can learn in our universities is Java, .NET and C based languages. And even teaching of theese languages is of poor quality becouse they teach the mostly same stuf as they did 10 years ago. So when most of our students come out of school they still lacks some needed knowledge to become sucsessful programers on their own.
Another problem in Slovenia is that all of theese universities are full. So if you didn't have excelent grades in highschool you don't even have a chance to sign in.
Also here in Slovenia it is werry hard to get any scholarship at all. And even if you do get it, it won't cover all the expenses for study. So many students are forced to do parttime jobs during study. And this means les time and energy for study itself.

I myself haven't got a chance to sing into the university so I was forced to learn all by myself. And since I need money to live I had to find myself a job to earn enough for living. And to be honest I don't like my job wery much. I work as a customs officer. I have 12 hour shifts. The job itself can be verry stresfull becouse I had to work with various pepole (none of them isn't happy to see me). So many times when I come home from work I have no more energy to do some learning or any programing.

[Eric]

I don't recall that there was free version of Delphi before Delphi 6 personal and it was still popular.

Previous versions were available for free via the CD that game with various magazines (at least in France, Germany and UK, can't say for other countries)

In addition, Embarcadero is offering (similar to what Borland did) Delphi versions to academic institutions at huge discounts (90%-97% discount).

That's only good for students and academics, and more hassle that getting Visual Studio or Eclipse (which can be download with no fuss).

There are many institutions, including the one I was in, that have a very strong software engineering program.

How, I don't doubt there are good institutions, but "many" is another story entirely, and anyway, that's only for the student side, and only for those students that have taken such a course, so it is only an option for a small minority.

Yes, studying is not easy here at ITESM, you will probably have to study overtime, working on projects at night and so on, but it's totally worth it.

As you just said, these course take a lot of time. Some require a background. Many are heavy on theory, light on practical aspects, etc. They're just not (and can't be) and alternative to more focused articles. They cater a different crowd with different needs.

This, however, does not mean that you should put away the education.

That wasn't my point, I've got quite a high degree myself (not sure how it translates, that's one that is normally completed at 23-24 yo), and that was quite a few years ago already.

What I'm saying is that I don't think PGD should assume a public constituted of software engineering PhDs ;-)

[SilverWarior]

Sorry, I answered to the post and hit accidently the back button of my browser so everything is lost. Anyway, I wrote that I am not a studied man but a simple hobby programmer. I can hardly find Freepascal ressources for game development in the net but Delphi and Delphi everywhere. So, maybe one can empathize my fear that this place will be pure Delphi eventually.

It seems that Delphi is quite popular in Germany but since my German is werry bad I have no use of those. So I myself am facing similar problem of having dificulties to find necessary game development articles for Delphi.