So whatever happened to the whole PGDCE thing?

[Dan]

Vulkan is very unforgiving of errors and it doesn't hold your hand

yet it has an extremely useful feature - validation layers. if you enable parameter validation layer for example it will tell you every time you pass in an invalid parameter to a function. but it is extremely low level and I am now at about 100 KB of code just to get Vulkan to initialize and start rendering. This is off topic of course, but I have been researching Vulkan for the last 6 months, it is very promising. Bero, has done some amazing work to make Vulkan available for pascal developers here https://github.com/BeRo1985/pasvulkan.

[phibermon]

yet it has an extremely useful feature - validation layers. if you enable parameter validation layer for example it will tell you every time you pass in an invalid parameter to a function. but it is extremely low level and I am now at about 100 KB of code just to get Vulkan to initialize and start rendering. This is off topic of course, but I have been researching Vulkan for the last 6 months, it is very promising. Bero, has done some amazing work to make Vulkan available for pascal developers here https://github.com/BeRo1985/pasvulkan.

I wasn't aware that Bero was working on it, that's absolutely fantastic news - thanks Dan!

You clearly know more than I do (which is very little so far) these validation layers make coding for Vulkan a far more appealing prospect by the sounds of it however you're a very experienced developer and 100KB of code just for init indicates an awful lot of work and learning will be required to reach the same stage - the potential performance benefits are very tempting. We're really lucky that Bero is working on this and releasing code that we can use - he's a true guru and far more capable than me - hopefully I'll be able to put his work to use in my projects eventually.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your experiences with the API one of the days if you have the time to discuss - it would be useful to put together a small article for prospective pascal Vulkan developers so they know what to expect and can plan accordingly.

Thanks for the heads up!

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EDIT : I just wanted to add for those reading that Vulkan actually is available on Android so that does make it a far more tempting target. Unfortunately however it is not and will not be available on OSX/IOS - such a shame that Apple have got the propitiatory bug (so to speak) - so much extra work for everybody.

Given the time it takes to develop engines, if work on PGDCE should resume? it may pay for us to design with Vulkan in mind - if learning is the main aim of the game? we all have something to learn there.

[AthenaOfDelphi]

So we've heard quite a bit from regulars.... what about everyone else

Everyone who is lurking around posting just when they have a question... in the words of Mr. Morden.... What do you want?

I want to hear from as many of you as possible, so get posting!

[Rodrigo Robles]

Sorry for the late response, I can't read all the messages from all the forum sections, even a small amount that we have today requires more time than I can get. But I assume that is a reality that we should face as a natural things nowadays, with a lot of social networks and infinite messages.

First about the community engine: I never offered my help to the engine because my OpenGL knowledge is about 1.0 version, and for me OpenGL still is the API of preference. I could help more as a user or tester when the first versions come out.

For the guys that pointed that the homemade engines can't face the big commercial ones. Nowadays I believe it's true. But free software tends to overcame commercial software sooner or later, and we are plenty of examples like Linux overcoming windows (now in all arenas except desktop), Firefox/Chromium/Chrome overcoming IE and so on. In the game engine arena OGRE can be still weaker than Unity, but the history shows that some free software can overcome the proprietary software sooner or later.

SilverWarrior said "my current job is draining almost all of my energy from me". Welcome to the capitalism, my friend! I don't want to divert the conversation for economical or political models, but it is a valuable pointed. Athena pointed something similar, and I can say the same. Our actual political/economical model is built do extract the most of the energy from us to continue enrich that 1% of guys that keep the capital. So we work like slaves and have few time to do any kind of community work.

I'm participating of several communities, including techies like PGD and Free Software and others less techie and more local. In all the communities we are facing the problem of low contribution and people sucked for the work. And we aren't even talking about all that people that is just alienated that not realize how communities are important to the society.

And the bad news is I can see nowhere providing an easy solution for this problem. The solution we are working in many communities is to share knowledge about how communities are important to the society and how people can work together to build a better life. But is a long-term solution. There is no short-term solution.

I believe that being a member of a community is a two-hand way, every people contribute with something that builts into a larger whole. What I expect from the community is to exchange knowlege with others. I like to talk about technical questions and to read about the game projects.

At last I want to say that I really respect the efforts of Athena to keep up the community. The real heroes are the people that fight for their people, not vain people of industry that fight for profits and fame. When you need help funding for the hosting or any other thing please call me.

You're right to feel bad in the corporative workspace. I feel like that. Many corporations (not all, but the majority) can't manage their workers correcty, building a toxic environment of stress and harassment.

[AthenaOfDelphi]

Well, from a stress perspective I'm much better these days. I've just spent 5 days house bashing, rewiring a kitchen ready for the installation of the accessories once the kitchen is fitted, later in the week I'll be moving some more light switches and a socket outlet in the same property Far more satisfying than being sat at a desk all day

[Akira13]

Kinda reviving this thread here, but I've spent some serious time browsing through the PGDCE sources over the last couple of days and man, it sure seems like it's basically just Cast Engine 3.0. Was there any particular reason why George/Mirage had such a relatively "heavier" influence on the engine than everyone else? It's not a bad codebase overall at all, though. Certainly could be continued/improved upon/picked up from where it was left off pretty easily, I'd say. One thing I would definitely do immediately (if it was up to me) is completely scrap all use of that nightmarish fake-generics "template" library. Talk about include-file hell! There is no logical reason for anyone to be using anything other than Generics.Collections for their container classes these days, whether on Delphi or FPC/Lazarus. (The FPC version is actually better, BTW.)

[AthenaOfDelphi]

The reason it was heavily influenced by Mirage is because he was the only one who really contributed any code.

What's really come out of this is that the vast majority of the site users don't have much to say about the site and seem to have even less interest in generating useful content and such like. I've received a small handful of offers of help, one of which I still have to review, but other than that... nothing.

Which does beg the question, why bother?

Well because looking at the forums there is a steady flow of new posts, but it is really quite depressing that so few people are willing to give a little bit of their time back to help improve the community they probably benefit from. I have no idea how to change that.

[pitfiend]

...One thing I would definitely do immediately (if it was up to me) is completely scrap all use of that nightmarish fake-generics "template" library. Talk about include-file hell! There is no logical reason for anyone to be using anything other than Generics.Collections for their container classes these days, whether on Delphi or FPC/Lazarus. (The FPC version is actually better, BTW.)

This was a topic of very deep debate, we decided to drop generics, because there are differences between Delphi and FPC on how they tackle them. So, as we wanted to provide an engine for everybody, there are some sacrifices to do and some requirements to meet.