View Full Version : New Site Name!

07-05-2004, 10:53 PM
Ok, after the new site name debate going on for several months, the most likely one has been suggested.

Pascal Games Development aka. PGD for short.

This name has been suggested based on the following reasons:

:arrow: Although the more popular compiler is Delphi it's not the only one that we will be covering
:arrow: The name of the programming language is Pascal(Object Pascal in the case of Delphi and Kylix, but it's basically like a OOP superset of Pascal anyway)
:arrow: Free Pascal supports 64-bit processors and Mac OS X where Delphi & Kylix doesn't, shouldn't we acknowlage them too?
:arrow: There is and will be a lot of interest in other compilers other than Delphi as much as I like it, but as part of the name you have to admit, it is inaccurate.
:arrow: The name of the site should reflect it's content thus Pascal rather than Delphi.

07-05-2004, 11:42 PM
Good reasoning, count me in.

It does bring up the domain issue... will we 'still' be using the 'delphigamer' one, or are we going to find an alternative for that as well? If so, what is it going to do for the built up publicity of what is still two sites at the moment?

08-05-2004, 12:11 PM
As a simple basic member who reads posts more than he writes himself, i must say that i prefer DGDev to PGD. :? No doubt the fact i'm used to it unbalances the poll, but when i was even more of a newbie i didn't understand the link between the delphi IDE and the pascal programming language :scratch: , as I often melt them in the Delphi programming language... :roll: the truth is that i never searched google for "pascal tutorial"; instead I always used delphi in the keywords...
I understand my vision may not be representative at all and other pascal compilators should be part of the site, I still think the DGDev name is great !


PS : Don't take my opinion too serioulsy, because if the website name changes, it won't cost me too much to change my habits lol :wink:

08-05-2004, 06:50 PM
The problem isn;t chnaging the habits of people already on the site but making it easier to find for people just starting off using DELPHI as a game development tool.

I think it needs to be called DELPHI something.

08-05-2004, 08:19 PM
The site will clearly show Delphi within the site, but it will also clearly state Free Pascal aswell along with Kylix. So wheres the problem here?

Everything other than Delphi is being put under the Delphi label. Thats like bad advertizing even before anyone reads anything else on the site. Think about it. Why don't we just call it the 'Delphi & Windows With DirectX Site For People That Mostly Program In 2D But On Occation Is Known To Release A 3D Product With Something Other Than DelphiX'?

The title of this site should be short all inlusive and reflect what we do here. I don't think we are platform specific nor are we compiler specific so our title should reflect that.

09-05-2004, 03:02 PM
I agree with what cairnswm and Abened said. Delphi may perhaps be a part of the whole. It is nontheless the most familiar to most. And although I know it is not entirely just, but Pascal sounds old to me. A thing of the past.

For me DGDev is good enough.

09-05-2004, 07:54 PM
I can understand the attempt to link in other compilers to the site but to me the word pascal conjures up images of old Turbo Pascal and that instantly dates the perceived activities of this site.


09-05-2004, 08:44 PM
delphi is just an ide for the object pascal language. And the pascal language is more then just Delphi. I hope the namechange brings in more people from other pascal languages.

09-05-2004, 08:47 PM
Considering the site will not be limited to delphi, I think that PGD is a good name. I totaly agree with what WILL said, about bad advertising, and I think that putting Free Pascal stuff etc. under a "delphi name" would be a bad thing to do.

09-05-2004, 08:59 PM

I look into many discuss forums other than English language (I am looking for DelphiX only, in Russian, Japanese, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Magyar, Persian, Chinese and other sources). No, problems had still the same. Is not functionally database of (instant) solutions and bad documented (help, examples) of using products (I think products as DelphiX pack, Powerdraw, WDX etc. pack and other like plug-ins or utilities for this. Find no HOW, it is describes, but WHY doing it hereby). When I look for to the full solution (like as initialization complete, effect component, welcome display, score display and other), its no exist. But exist many advices scattered in many forumes.
For example for DelphiX had really a number of Internet sources and many other "too sources" refer there only. I thinks, that many peoples will not seek solution for routine works, they are in anticipation of complete menu.
But I cannot speak of because I am using DelphiX two months only. I am "still new user" only sorry. I am do together old utility of DelphiX only (and with bad languange).

09-05-2004, 09:29 PM
I understand the fear of changing the name away from being Delphi centric, but the fact is that we need to broaden the scope of the site in order to reach a wider audience. Having Delphi in the name reduces our visibility and make it more developer specific.

The points I wanted to make were...
1. For Pascal ( or Delphi for that matter ) to be taken seriously as a viable game development tool, it needs to be more cross-platform.
Though Borland has gone some way with this ( Kylix ), I think that FreePascal has gone even further. They currently support Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, DOS, Win32, OS/2, BeOS, SunOS (Solaris), QNX, AmigaOS and announced last week that a beta version of the MacOS X compiler is available from ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/fpc/beta/macosx-powerpc-1.9.3.
I do not want to use C/C++ unless I am forced to, so having this flexibility means a lot to me.

2. To be honest, I am disappointed, thus far with Borland's commitment to native compilers ( like 64bit support like FPC ) and also to their cross-platform compiler, Kylix. Yes I understand that they have a small team, hence the reason for focussing on Delphi.NET, but I still have faith in the growth of Linux, as indicated by Mandrake's recent return to profitability and exit from bankruptcy. This was an opportunity for Borland to take the lead on a new platform, if only they could stick it out and have also brought out a MacOS X compiler. So my point being, I for one am not putting all my development energy into a Delphi specific code. I ensure that my code compiles on Delphi, Kylix and at least FPC, just in case Borland decides to stop supporting Delphi ( as they seem to have done with Kylix, for the time being ).

3. If Pascal Game Dev sounds too old fashioned, how about "Object Pascal Game Development" akd OPGD or an anagram like PDOG or GODP, as this is more accurate as to what most people will be using to create their games. And most of the non-Delphi compilers support a subset or more of the OP syntax and in some cases have more language features than Delphi. Actually another just dawned on me... OPGOD which could be Object Pascal Gathering of Developers :D.

4. Keep in mind that both the DelphiGamer.com url and the dgdev url would redirect to the new site for at least another year or so. This should give current Delphi developers plenty of time to realise that the new site caters for more than just Delphi Game Dev. The site would also be optimised so that if you type "Delphi Game or Pascal Game of Object Pascal" it should almost always hit our site. We need a way of pushing our site to the top of Google for starters and any other search engines as well.

So to wrap up, though I would be sorry to see DelphiGamer.com disappear, as it has been part of my life for so long now, I realise that to catch more fish, we need a bigger net. I really want the Object Pascal Game developing world, to be taken seriously, and a bigger/wider targetting site will hopefully bring this about.

Appologies for the length of the post :oops:

09-05-2004, 10:10 PM
Hi, I agree with will, although I think it should be called Pascal Game Development and not Games, it just sounds better ;)

09-05-2004, 10:17 PM
Is it just me that reads PGD as "pigged"? Or PDOG as "pigdog"? We could have a pig as our mascot. Why not? Linux has a penguin. :)

While Borland has officially dropped the Object Pascal name and called the language Delphi along with the IDE, it is still known as Pascal by the world at large. Delphi does not have the monopoly on Pascal development either. There is FreePascal, TMT Pascal (and probably some others that I have missed) that are quite simply not Delphi. In many ways, these other flavours of Pascal are pushing Pascal further into the future than Borland has been recently. In this regard, having "Delphi" in the title does seem to exclude other Pascal users from the site.

09-05-2004, 11:01 PM
I personally like the name DGDev, even tho the website extends to FreePascal too on occasion. I just like the way the name can be pronounced easily! :)

Besides Delphi is said to be Pascal, however Delphi is also said to be the language Delphi and Pascal is called Object Pascal in Delphi, which brings me to the end conclusion that Delphi is the name of an "improved" Pascal language, so in theory the name ofthe language Delphi would also be correct for FreePascal, since it aims to be Delphi compatible! :)

PGDev allready sounds a lot better tho! ;)

09-05-2004, 11:08 PM
In my opinion the emphasis should lie primarily on game development. What is the language and the IDE more than a tool that enables the developer to create apps/games? Thus, to reach a significantly wider audience, I'd propose to leave all language specifics out of the name and welcome everybody who could share his knowledge and experience regardless what language he uses. :roll:

But, as for the decission PGD yes or no:

First of all, I think both the main pro and contra argument are very strong: As the new Delphi versions aren't overly innovative compared to competitioners I can imagine that many Delphi coder look for alternatives. Some of them will for sure move over to FreePascal. It would be nice if they still coulf feel at home at these pages.
On the other hand Delphi used to be more than an IDE or a compiler. It is the synonym for the programminglanguage, too. ("I've coded this in Delphi")
Thus, we should make sure that Google still hits this sites when the search querie contains Delphi instead of Pascal, because as allready mentioned most people won't search for Pascal.

Well, time for a vote: I'd agree with Dominique to use the term "object pascal" because it's a big difference compared to plain pascal in my eyes.
--> Object Pascal Game Development


09-05-2004, 11:28 PM
I am 2 thumbs up for the name :)

09-05-2004, 11:37 PM
Just a small footnote, so everyone doesn't mistake what we intend. We are not going to move away from Delphi. This is the home for not only Delphi but ALL Pascal game development. Think of it more like adding a few family members to a party already in progress.

I'm quite sure that we will not alienate any Delphi users by using the term Pascal instead. And to be frankly honest if we do... well they should have read a book or two before they started using the software. Object Pascal is still the language the IDE uses no matter what you wish to call it.

Alternatively we could call it OPGD, but just PGD is more generic and covers the most of the languages(2 by my count, if that depending on what direction Free Pascal decides to do).

As for search engines, ever hear of Meta Tags? The wonderful little things allow you to add keywords without needing to be seen within the content of the site. They're great for search engines. We will have these so we may call the site whatever we want it it matters not as to weither search engines will rank us high or low, just based on the actual content(which will have lots of 'pascal', 'object pascal' and 'delphi' words in it).

You name something for what you want it to be, not want you want to attract.

10-05-2004, 03:05 AM
Using Delphi Game development or similar is best approach since that's where games are developed (even though there're enough pascal languages over there, be it more or less features than Delphi). Never the less, I've cast a vote for the Pascal Games Development since it's more generic, defined correctly (Delphi Games development really is nonsense since Delphi itseld is just an IDE with some tools... would do the same as Notepad Game Development) and probably somehow reminds of old DOS days where some of us tried (and failed... j/k) developing games in Turbo Pascal, etc.


10-05-2004, 05:06 AM
I like site name which is now. i don't know why it must be changed. for me everything must be in the same way how it is now.

10-05-2004, 06:40 AM
Erm... I guess it's too late to suggest titles, but, I like the idea of a generic name, but also the word pascal (like some previous ppl said) brings up kinda old and outdated associations.

Pascal++ Game Development ...


Or something to indicate the less archaic associations with 'pascal'.

10-05-2004, 09:30 AM
As for search engines, ever hear of Meta Tags? The wonderful little things allow you to add keywords without needing to be seen within the content of the site. They're great for search engines.

Just on a side note, not all search engines check out the meta tags. Google for example doesn't even look at the meta tags, it generates the page description on the pages itself. No comment on the use and/or explanation of meta tags tho! ;)

10-05-2004, 11:09 AM
the percents of votes for both are too close, you'll have to do a compromise otherwise one side will be very unhappy ;)

10-05-2004, 11:35 AM
I do vote for Pascal :D, since the real language used is Pascal and not Delphi.

Delphi users will be concerned, as well as FreePascal and other platforms too.

(and moreover I'm currently working with FP so ... :wink: )

10-05-2004, 03:33 PM
I like the idea of having a page for all pascal languages and I don't have any problem with the name change. The only thing I'm worried about is that 99% of the site will still be concerning Delphi and only 1% other pascal dialects. If this happens I'd say we should stick with Delphi in the name otherwise Pascal.

10-05-2004, 05:41 PM
i dont like pacsal game developmant...
it doesn't match...i think
developers of game creation in delphi...
dont know :P :P

11-05-2004, 12:12 AM
PGDev allready sounds a lot better tho! ;)

For what it's worth, I agree with my friend the lion :cat: :salute: :thelion:

It took me literally less than 30 seconds to come up with the name DGDev, sometimes it's best to go with what feels right and not analyse it too much.

Change the D to a P and I'll be a happy cat :viking:

Harry Hunt
11-05-2004, 07:31 AM
Ugh, don't call it "Pascal Games Development", please!
Why don't you use a neutral name that mentions neither Pascal nor Delphi and then have a subtitle of some sort.

"X-Dev for all your Pascal/Delphi game development needs"

if you call it "PGDev" then make it "Pascal Game Development", not "GameS Development" :wink: .

11-05-2004, 12:16 PM
Uhm... maybe we can use a main url, like pgd.net, or x-dev or wathever you want, and a couple of subdomain like delphi.pgd.net, freepascal.pgd.net, etc. Isn't so hard to make a dynamic site (with php or asp) that shows different contents according with url request. 8)

11-05-2004, 03:30 PM
Uhm... maybe we can use a main url, like pgd.net, or x-dev or wathever you want, and a couple of subdomain like delphi.pgd.net, freepascal.pgd.net, etc. Isn't so hard to make a dynamic site (with php or asp) that shows different contents according with url request. 8)

Nice idea, we could host some sites for members too, like turbo.gamedev.net

12-05-2004, 12:01 AM
Legolas: It's a good idea so long as you have a web programmer wanting to do the extra coding. ;) Sersiouly though it's best if we stick to one title for the one site. As neat an idea it may be. :)

Well today will be the last day for voting since everyone has had a chance to vote. I will lockup the polls at the end of today. Approx. 6:00 GMT

As for the new name. You can pretty much guess... It will be Pascal Game Development since most do not have a problem with this and the majority do like the new title. The benifit to this besides personal taste is that we will in title represent ALL Pascal compilers and game development platforms. Not just the more popular ones. For those that have worries that this means less of anything at all, not so. In fact there will be much more content on all aspects of Pascal Game Development than before. More news posts with more reporters, staff written articles and staff screened and submitted tutorials for quality control and last, but not least our wonderful fourms!

12-05-2004, 05:27 AM
Well that ends voting on this very important issue.

I was to personally thank all members returning from a long absence and those that manage to visit regularly for taking the time to offer your valuable opinions and thoughts on this topic.

Please read this thread to view the overview of this Poll: Results (http://terraqueous.f2o.org/dgdev/viewtopic.php?t=1320)