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pitfiend
26-03-2012, 01:06 AM
When you start a game project, which is your choice for graphic and audio resources?

I must confess that I'm not a very good graphician neither musician or sound effect maker, what I do best is coding. So what to do, try make some not so bad graphics and audio, hire someone else to do that job or use free stuff? Take in mind that not every coder has a big budget (usually we don't have budget at all) for a starter project.

The other question is, do you start building the game or the resources?

If your thoughts tell to go the free way, which are the recommended tools of trade for graphics and audio?

On graphics I think that The Gimp is one of the best choices, maybe I'm wrong, but I know it well.

WILL
26-03-2012, 04:08 AM
It depends on what kind of game you are going for; commercial game project, for fun or just experimenting?

Even if it is any one of these, you don't have to use your initial graphics as your final. In many solo-indie game projects a lot of us just use placeholder graphics or what is called programmer's art. It's not meant to be the final graphics, but good enough to get the message across of what's going on and puts something in the hole that will be filled later with free/public domain stuff or volunteer artwork later on. From there you want to get your game to a playable state and work out all the features and gameplay as well as you can before seeking better graphics.

Music, you could wait until the end. This is very common with most games. However if you want to make some of the art or gameplay work with some music music you picked out, you could start adding music and sound effects to your game earlier. If you have not done a lot of game projects before, I'd recommend just adding the music after you've nearly completed the game and are tweaking/balancing and polishing things for release.

My self, I create the programmers art using either Photoshop or MS Paint (which is free!) of course there are others you can use, find which is best! Then after I've made my, not the best looking assests I need I plug them into my project's folder and begin coding my idea.

GIMP is pretty good though there may be some bugs depending on platform and there are some great tricks you can learn to make great graphics using filters and tricks with GIMP or Photoshop. Another option could be using something like Poser where you just buy or find free models that you can plug into Poser and create your sprite animations that way.

There is fan art/sprite websites out there that you can use for either a fan-made project or just to prototype your game. To get your game concept made can be done for free. To get the custom graphics you want for a project you need to find a person to make them for/with you or hire someone to create the graphics you need. Either has their good and bad points. Don't count on the total free option to always work!

User137
26-03-2012, 10:38 AM
I have learned to use Gimp very well, and as far as i can see, have never found any bugs. Using layers is like a second language to me ;D But sounds (free) i need to google...

Daikrys
26-03-2012, 12:08 PM
if you dont have a big budget buying graphic assets would be to expensive, it depends on how much you can spend
a good way is to look at turbosquid or some other sites for cheap or free assets, note that if you found a good asset you have to look after the artists homepage cause if you directly buy from him you can avoid the turbosquid fee and save 30-50%

i also found 99designs (https://99designs.com/) but havent tested yet, you can make an offer and look if anyone will take the job

another choice may making the assets all yourself, free tools for 3d would be Blender for example
and for 2d i highly recommend Inkscape and Gimp
you can learn from various tutorials on the web for example here (http://2dgameartforprogrammers.blogspot.de)
also the Pixelprospector resource page (http://www.pixelprospector.com/indie-resources/) may help

for music you should go royality free with sites like Melodyloops (http://www.melodyloops.com/music/)
same goes for sounds
if you dont make a commercial project you can also find free music and sounds trough google ;)

EDIT: i also recommend what Will said, if you dont have a short timeframe even when you go commercial you should use placeholder and polish things up later
i also do this for my prototypes
in bigger projects i create them on demand cause i make the graphic assets myself but still using placeholder for music cause it would consume to much time to do them myself too

paul_nicholls
26-03-2012, 08:03 PM
For graphics editors, I can't go past Paint DOT NET (Windows only though...) - I find it really easy to use, has lots of plugins/extensions to expand it, and has layers just like photoshop :)

LP
26-03-2012, 11:17 PM
When you start a game project, which is your choice for graphic and audio resources?
Graphics: a graphics artist, Music: hiring a music composer, Sound effects: purchasing some cheap/commercial sound effects and then modifying them. There is also a tool that can generate some basic sound effects, but I've lost the link to it. Perhaps someone else has it?


The other question is, do you start building the game or the resources?
This question is not formulated properly. What you should be thinking is: what work you should be doing that will give you the highest impact with the lowest cost/time. So basically, do what you do best and fast! ;)

paul_nicholls
26-03-2012, 11:57 PM
There is also a tool that can generate some basic sound effects, but I've lost the link to it. Perhaps someone else has it?

Perhaps you are refering to SFXR (http://www.drpetter.se/project_sfxr.html)?

LP
27-03-2012, 12:32 AM
Perhaps you are refering to SFXR (http://www.drpetter.se/project_sfxr.html)?
Yes, thank you! :)

mobilus
27-03-2012, 03:05 AM
Try to find someone on a graphics/music forum.
If you promise to share the potential benefits from your game, you will surely find someone.


Type of Work ..........................| Commercial Tools ....................| Free Tools ................
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3D Graphics ............................| Max3d, LightWave, Maya, ... .....| Blender ....................
2D Graphics, Post-Processing .....| Photoshop .............................| Gimp ........................
Scalable Vector Graphics ...........| Corel Draw ............................| InkScape ..................
Freehand Painting ....................| Corel Painter ..........................| MyPaint ....................
Music Composing .....................| Cubase, Fruity Loops, ... ..........| LMMS .......................
Sound Effects .........................| VSTi plugins, Microphone, ... .....| Free VSTi plugins .......
Programming ...........................| Delphi XE2, ... ........................| Lazarus, Turbo Delphi ..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost: ..................................... > 7000$ .................................. 0$ ...........................
Satisfaction: ............................ :D ......................................... :) .........................

paul_nicholls
27-03-2012, 04:00 AM
Try to find someone on a graphics/music forum.
If you promise to share the potential benefits from your game, you will surely find someone.


Type of Work ..........................| Commercial Tools ....................| Free Tools ................
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3D Graphics ............................| Max3d, LightWave, Maya, ... .....| Blender ....................
2D Graphics, Post-Processing .....| Photoshop .............................| Gimp ........................
Scalable Vector Graphics ...........| Corel Draw ............................| InkScape ..................
Freehand Painting ....................| Corel Painter ..........................| MyPaint ....................
Music Composing .....................| Cubase, Fruity Loops, ... ..........| LMMS .......................
Sound Effects .........................| VSTi plugins, Microphone, ... .....| Free VSTi plugins .......
Programming ...........................| Delphi XE2, ... ........................| Lazarus, Turbo Delphi ..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost: ..................................... > 7000$ .................................. 0$ ...........................
Satisfaction: ............................ :D ......................................... :) .........................

haha! nice :)

WILL
27-03-2012, 04:14 AM
You can't get Turbo Delphi anymore. :(

But there is Lazarus and Delphi XE2 Starter Edition is a more reasonable purchase for an indie than the other editions.

Super Vegeta
27-03-2012, 05:19 AM
I have a friend who makes pixelart for my games, so luckily gfx part of this problem is mostly non-existent. I know how to do some basic stuff, be it GIMP or a more pixelart-focused editor - so if I'm missing something, I can create some acceptably-looking placedholder. Or, I can always try asking another one of my friends. ;)

For sounds, I sometimes use findsounds.com, but most of the time - my quite extensive .wav library taken from a lot of games, game mods et cetera, quite often edited using Audacity.

Music is the biggest bummer, as none of my friends really does anything in this field. :(

mobilus
27-03-2012, 05:38 AM
You can't get Turbo Delphi anymore. :(

But there is Lazarus and Delphi XE2 Starter Edition is a more reasonable purchase for an indie than the other editions.

You're right.

Ñuño Martínez
27-03-2012, 10:36 AM
There are some sites that offers free resources. I use OpenGameArt (http://opengameart.org/) to look for testing resources. They have a lot of nice resources, from graphics to music. Of course you should read the licenses for every resource you use.

pitfiend
27-03-2012, 06:51 PM
That's really quite impressive, thanks for your advice. I have Delphi 7 & 2007. So the compiler is already taken. For sound effects I'll try that Paul's recomendation (I must confess that a project to build a sound maker is on my todo list, also a sprite editor). For the graphics I'll go with the Gimp and an old tile editor made with Delphi (http://tilestudio.sourceforge.net/). For music I still didn't decide between mod, midi, mp3 or ogg.

LP
27-03-2012, 07:12 PM
But there is Lazarus and Delphi XE2 Starter Edition is a more reasonable purchase for an indie than the other editions.
By the way, if you are a student, you can get Delphi XE 2 Professional for around $30 using their Academic Program's portal.

WILL
27-03-2012, 08:57 PM
By the way, if you are a student, you can get Delphi XE 2 Professional for around $30 using their Academic Program's portal.

David was telling me that they were going to be pushing this. $30 is a great deal. Where was this announced? I would have made a news post, would that I had been informed by Embarcadero.

pitfiend
27-03-2012, 09:45 PM
I'm junior only on the forums, 20 years ago I was a student. Actually I develop comercial apps for the insurance and human resources business, but I have enough, need something more enjoyable and maybe could forget that I did that kind of boring crap.

paul_nicholls
27-03-2012, 09:50 PM
I would have made a news post, would that I had been informed by Embarcadero.

haha! That would have been too easy, for them to tell you! :D

WILL
27-03-2012, 10:38 PM
Take a cheap course and get more than a tenth of the price off the Professional version of the new Delphi. ;) lol

That's ok Paul, at least I have all you good folks to help me out with finding the important stuff like that.

Eric
28-03-2012, 08:10 AM
About the Academic License, keep in mind it's "for non-commercial classroom use only"

http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/frequently-asked-questions#13-2


What are the limitations of the Academic editions?

The Academic edition can be used only for learning in an academic or classroom environment. Educational institutions cannot use the academic version to produce software for use within their institution to commercial licenses.

The non-commercial part is obvious and limiting enough, but the learning & classroom restrictions are a lot more damning: it means you can't use it to release a free game or free applications.

So it's for your own learning use, arguably that of you fellow students & teachers, but you can't compile and release anything made with it on PGD or the broader internet.

Legally speaking, even using it for an entry to the PGD Challenge isn't allowed as the judges aren't your teachers, and the entry is subsequently made available to the general public.

The only really usable cheap edition for hobbyists is the Starter one, but the icense only makes it practical for free software. The Starter edition $1000 limit on revenues is what is limiting it, as it applies to revenues, rather than sales (so everything that is a revenue from an accounting point of view counts towards it, and that encompasses far more than sales).

LP
28-03-2012, 03:01 PM
David was telling me that they were going to be pushing this. $30 is a great deal. Where was this announced? I would have made a news post, would that I had been informed by Embarcadero.
I'm not sure, but this (http://www.codegear.com/education/academic-program) seems to be its web page.


The Starter edition $1000 limit on revenues is what is limiting it, as it applies to revenues, rather than sales (so everything that is a revenue from an accounting point of view counts towards it, and that encompasses far more than sales).
What does this mean? Isn't it Revenue = Income - Expenses?

Eric
28-03-2012, 03:25 PM
What does this mean? Isn't it Revenue = Income - Expenses?
"revenue" is all the forms of raw income (aka "top line"), while "income minus expenses" is profits or net income (aka bottom line). So you can have revenue not just without having profits, but also when losing money.

What goes into the "revenue" are sales, interests etc. Pretty much every company has revenues of some sort, even those that haven't yet sold anything, if only because they'll have placed the capital they use to pay wages on a bank account with interests, or accounting practices dictate that tax cuts appear as virtual revenue vs virtual expenses, etc.

So this makes Delphi Starter a much more limited proposition than f.i. Microsoft BizSpark, which is basically free for 3 years or until you reach $1 million in revenue. 3 years is plenty of time for a startup, and you're unlikely to reach $1 million without having some serious sales or a seriously huge amount of cash in the bank, while the $1000 can be passed easily even without any actual sales.

LP
28-03-2012, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the clarification on revenue's issue!


So it's for your own learning use, arguably that of you fellow students & teachers, but you can't compile and release anything made with it on PGD or the broader internet.

Legally speaking, even using it for an entry to the PGD Challenge isn't allowed as the judges aren't your teachers, and the entry is subsequently made available to the general public.
I've been thinking on this. If you are using Delphi Academic Edition, perhaps you can justify your participation on PGD Annual or any other contest as part of your learning/academic process. In fact, many institutions may provide grants and support for their students participating on different contests and you are technically representing the institution in addition to yourself, so Academic Edition can still apply.

Even if you publish something on Internet that you've made with Academic edition during your academic/student life, I don't think it will conflict with Academic license.

WILL
28-03-2012, 09:23 PM
Well considering that Embarcadero was giving an upgrade discount to anyone that "programmed" with even Notepad I think that they would not jump on your back about using something you bought as a student for a for-fun competition. Seeing great stuff made with Pascal would appeal to them and be enough to convince the educational point, I'm sure

Thanks for the link Lifepower.

pitfiend
28-03-2012, 10:30 PM
But, is there a way to identify your binaries? I mean, a binary made with a student edition is signed differently than an enterprise made one? If not, then all that thing about license has no meaning. Just a list of restrictions of what you are allowed to do. Seems to me, it's just an abusive way for Embarcadero to make it's income.

LP
28-03-2012, 11:34 PM
I'm not sure if the binaries can be identified or not, and in either case it won't make much difference besides violating the privacy of the end user, since identifiable binaries can be a security risk. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think they will break your leg for publishing something that was made with Academic Edition during your school years.

I mean, it would be different if you continue to publish commercial stuff after graduating, but in this case you can always opt for a Starter if budget is low, or simply get the expensive Professional edition.

Purchasing Professional edition wasn't much of a deal earlier when only Windows 32-bit was supported, but now with 64-bit, Mac OS and iOS, it's a pretty good deal.

Another way of getting around Academic limitations would be developing product with Academic edition and when it's finished, purchase commercial license to start selling, thus getting some time advantage.

pitfiend
29-03-2012, 02:39 AM
As I see it, nothing stops you to use an educational version instead of a pro, just your sense of honesty. In the end, it's only an ethical issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting nor enforcing something illegal, just pointing at an exploit.

SilverWarior
29-03-2012, 03:50 AM
Delphi compiler does write an information about wich version of software was used (trial, acadamic, other). The data is writen in the same block that dfm contents are.
But as far as I know when you use various executable packing programs this information gets packed with the rest and thus can't be read unles packing proces is reversed.

WILL
29-03-2012, 04:18 AM
There used to be some sort of stripping tool that removed some "useless" data from Delphi compiled EXEs so that you could create a 4 KB program for something similar to the demoscene competitions. (ie. Assembly)

In fact there used to be a tutorial on PGD that showed you how to create such a 4 KB executable.

pitfiend
29-03-2012, 04:34 AM
Delphi compiler does write an information about wich version of software was used (trial, acadamic, other). The data is writen in the same block that dfm contents are.
But as far as I know when you use various executable packing programs this information gets packed with the rest and thus can't be read unles packing proces is reversed.

Are you really really sure? I just checked some binaries made with delphi 7 and delphi 2007, and the only weird resource I found was something called DVCLAL present in all of them with the same content, unless I did something wrong I think there's no borland/codgear nag/signature. If anyone wants to confirm this, here is the hex string I found in both compiler's binaries 263D4F38C28237B8F3244203179B3A83

SilverWarior
29-03-2012, 07:48 PM
I'm quite sure. I don't know exactly where this information is being stored but when you use PE Explorer for analysing executables made with delphi this is one of the information being displayed in the program besides the VCL component hirearhial structure and several other interesting data.

pitfiend
22-08-2012, 10:53 PM
Yesterday a friend of mine, points me to this site http://www.fightersgeneration.com, it have a lot of sprites taken from many fighting games. Hope you enjoy it!