PDA

View Full Version : Questions about sellin games



Ñuño Martínez
27-02-2013, 09:18 AM
Actually I'm not asking how to sell a game. I know it. My question is about how these games are delivered... Well, not actually. I know how to deliver them, but there are some new concepts and markets that I don't understand.

For example, what is "Pay for play" (or Pay4play, as I've read)? I've bought Minecraft, which is pay4play, but I don't understand it. Ok, if I don't pay I can't play multiplayer mode and it doesn't updates automatically. Is that all? All games that are Pay4play are the same? Isn't Pay4play another way to say shareware?

Another concept is "DRM free". I know what DRM is (I think ::)), but I don't get that concept. I see that some Steam games are DRM free, but do you need to connect to Steam to play them as in any other Steam game? If you need to then it isn't DRM free actually, is it?

And talking about Steam: Last time I used Steam was about 3 or 4 years ago, and it was painful. People said me that it changed a lot in last years but I'm not sure. I remember that it starts-up with the OS and it steals a lot of resources (memory and CPU) and it isn't possible to halt it, not even to uninstall it (I had to format and re-install Windows to remove it). How does it work now?

Google's Play Store is much the same dog* but this time the culprit are the software-makers themselves (not all them, fortunately) adding buttons in the appropriate places to be clicked.

And I've read that Microsoft has it's own store and that anything that isn't acquired through this store are treated as malware by Windows 8. Is that true.

About Apple store, the same.

I think I'm forgetting something but I can't remember it... ??? Anyway there are a lot of questions yet. I hope somebody can help me (and anybody else) to understand this mess.
_______________________________

* Spanish proverb: "It is the same dog with different collar."

User137
27-02-2013, 10:34 AM
And talking about Steam: Last time I used Steam was about 3 or 4 years ago, and it was painful. People said me that it changed a lot in last years but I'm not sure. I remember that it starts-up with the OS and it steals a lot of resources (memory and CPU) and it isn't possible to halt it, not even to uninstall it (I had to format and re-install Windows to remove it). How does it work now?
That sounds weird, never had that and i have used it for years. It use 0% cpu, and 19Mb RAM. You can exit it anytime you want from the systray icon, and you can decide if you want it to start on Windows startup or not. I don't see why not, it is important chat client for me at least.

There shouldn't be any issues uninstalling. But not in a million years would i want to uninstall it, with all 71Gb of game downloads i would have to do again.

Super Vegeta
27-02-2013, 10:43 AM
Isn't Pay4play another way to say shareware?
The thing is, shareware is a very ambiguous term. I mean, for example, both Doom and Soldat are shareware, but in Doom, the free content is just the first episode - so the free part of the game is more like a demo. In Soldat, the free game is fully playable, the only three things registering the game gives you is being able to use custom interfaces, play custom music during the game and, when playing online, you get this cute little star next to your names that tells others you own a registered copy. Still, both games are shareware, so I think it's kinda good to divide this term a bit. Besides, in Minecraft, you can play on many many different servers, some of which may require to create an account on some site and make a donation towards covering the running costs, so as much as the game is free2download, it is, in fact, pay4play.

Desura seems to be quite a nice choice for indie devs nowadays. Only shame it doesn't have any achievements API nor a "player profile" in general, so it's only a games store, without the social elements Steam provides.

Daikrys
27-02-2013, 01:20 PM
Another concept is "DRM free". I know what DRM is (I think ), but I don't get that concept. I see that some Steam games are DRM free, but do you need to connect to Steam to play them as in any other Steam game? If you need to then it isn't DRM free actually, is it?

steam games are never DRM free cause you always need steam to access the game (downloading and playing). basicly its just a virtual gamedisk container :>

and yeah in the beginning steam was one of the nastys copy protections ive seen and it was deeply digging into your system
but its not that bad anymore and is easy to uninstall

LP
27-02-2013, 01:40 PM
For example, what is "Pay for play" (or Pay4play, as I've read)? I've bought Minecraft, which is pay4play, but I don't understand it. Ok, if I don't pay I can't play multiplayer mode and it doesn't updates automatically. Is that all? All games that are Pay4play are the same? Isn't Pay4play another way to say shareware?
(not specifically about Minecraft) My understanding about pay for play is that real money is exchanged with virtual money in the game to advance on levels, getting items and other features unlocked.


Another concept is "DRM free". I know what DRM is (I think ::)), but I don't get that concept. I see that some Steam games are DRM free, but do you need to connect to Steam to play them as in any other Steam game? If you need to then it isn't DRM free actually, is it?
Steam *is* a DRM and just by definition of it, any game published through Steam uses DRM. For instance, I've purchased Metro 2033 on GamersGate, and it requires Steam, so just to run the game, I had to download a third-party package that limits the usage of product; this is exactly what DRM is.


And talking about Steam: Last time I used Steam was about 3 or 4 years ago, and it was painful. People said me that it changed a lot in last years but I'm not sure. I remember that it starts-up with the OS and it steals a lot of resources (memory and CPU) and it isn't possible to halt it, not even to uninstall it (I had to format and re-install Windows to remove it). How does it work now?
In my own experience: it did not improve. Their buggy application when doesn't break, downloads things without your consent and displays popups when you least expect it. But maybe I'm not their target audience.


Google's Play Store is much the same dog* but this time the culprit are the software-makers themselves (not all them, fortunately) adding buttons in the appropriate places to be clicked.
Google Play Store is very similar to Apple Store. Both are okay, but can be widely abused by app makers. For instance, Apple has been sued (http://gigaom.com/2013/02/25/apple-settles-lawsuit-over-apps-aimed-at-kids-will-pay-5-itunes-credit-or-cash/) for allowing unlimited charges without even asking for password.

Many games try to make money by "black mailing" you: the game seems innocent at first, but then to build things, or get things, you need to pay, then, to advance to another level, you need to pay, and then, just to view your progress, you need to pay, etc.


And I've read that Microsoft has it's own store and that anything that isn't acquired through this store are treated as malware by Windows 8. Is that true.
I think this applies only to Windows 8 RT. However, I would suggest to avoid (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/five-ways-to-avoid-windows-8/11007) this platform altogether because... it's Windows 8 (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/final-thoughts-on-windows-8-a-design-disaster/20706). :(

User137
27-02-2013, 03:05 PM
Steam *is* a DRM and just by definition of it, any game published through Steam uses DRM. For instance, I've purchased Metro 2033 on GamersGate, and it requires Steam, so just to run the game, I had to download a third-party package that limits the usage of product; this is exactly what DRM is.
That third-party package being Steam itself? Only real limitation as far as i see, is that you must have internet connection, and that's not even true always. Offline playing works aswell sometimes.


In my own experience: it did not improve. Their buggy application when doesn't break, downloads things without your consent and displays popups when you least expect it. But maybe I'm not their target audience.
You must have alot of trojans on your computer :o It doesn't break, and all of the things you mention are configurable. Downloads are games auto-update features which you can disable per game, but are you sure you want to play old version? Popup you mean is propably steam overlay notification, but you can disable the entire overlay. Don't know other popups, took off friend status notifications long ago if such were ever on.

Anyways, does Steam even have Pascal API or something?

Cybermonkey
27-02-2013, 03:30 PM
Steam is a pain in the b... *cough*. Take Half Life 2 for instance. I bought it on a retail DVD, installed it and thought that's it. How wrong I was! The complete game was downloaded again (several GBs) so I could start playing a few days later ... Updates are well and good, but if I buy a game on DVD I want an instant play after installing and let me choose if I want to update or not. This bothers me about Steam. Anyway, I think it's good that it is now available on Linux.

Super Vegeta
27-02-2013, 05:05 PM
Anyways, does Steam even have Pascal API or something?
No. To make the joke even better, Steamworks comes in C++ only, there isn't even a C interface. (Not that I loathe cpp much, but on average C interfaces can be translated more easily.)

Ñuño Martínez
27-02-2013, 05:31 PM
I see most of us really have bad experiences with Steam.


(not specifically about Minecraft) My understanding about pay for play is that real money is exchanged with virtual money in the game to advance on levels, getting items and other features unlocked. That has more sense. Thanks.


Steam *is* a DRM and just by definition of it, any game published through Steam uses DRM. For instance, I've purchased Metro 2033 on GamersGate, and it requires Steam, so just to run the game, I had to download a third-party package that limits the usage of product; this is exactly what DRM is.

In my own experience: it did not improve. Their buggy application when doesn't break, downloads things without your consent and displays popups when you least expect it. But maybe I'm not their target audience. That was my experience. I think I'm not their target audience too.


I think this applies only to Windows 8 RT. However, I would suggest to avoid (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/five-ways-to-avoid-windows-8/11007) this platform altogether because... it's Windows 8 (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/final-thoughts-on-windows-8-a-design-disaster/20706). :( Thanks for the links. :)


That third-party package being Steam itself? Only real limitation as far as i see, is that you must have internet connection, and that's not even true always. Offline playing works aswell sometimes. That's the problem. I don't have the modem running all day. I put it on only when I'm using it, and I don't need it if I'm not playing a multiplayer net-based game.

A question: Is it possible to get the requirements of all the stores (Steam, Apple Store, Play store, etc.)?

SilverWarior
27-02-2013, 08:02 PM
I myself must join others who are not happy with steam.
First thing that bothers me about the steam is the fact that all games get instaled into the steam client folder. This can be very inconvinient when you are slowly running out of space on that drive and still have plenty of space on other drives.
Also I must say that I dislike the steam client entirely. I hate the fact that steam client needs to runn at the same time as steam games do. I have steam client autostart feature disbled becouse I don't like the fact that it is downloading updates both for games and for itself whenever it pleases as it can consume your whole bandwich. I hate for it to shows me various popup windows even when I least wan't it (when I'm playing non steam based game), which can sometimes lead to undesired consequences (crashing some older non steam games). I cerainly don't like that if you don't have steam client already running and try to start one of the steam games it always goes and checks for updates even if you have them disabled.
I also hate that if for some reason steam client freezes due to some bug you can quickly end up having multiple steam clients running at the same time.

So in short I'm trying to avoid in buying steam games whenever posible.

LP
27-02-2013, 11:37 PM
You must have alot of trojans on your computer :o It doesn't break, and all of the things you mention are configurable. Downloads are games auto-update features which you can disable per game, but are you sure you want to play old version? Popup you mean is propably steam overlay notification, but you can disable the entire overlay. Don't know other popups, took off friend status notifications long ago if such were ever on.
Maybe you are their target audience. :)

User137
28-02-2013, 12:23 AM
Maybe you are their target audience. :)
Yeah why not. I'm just very puzzled by some comments about it on this thread. I have never heard of such issues with Steam.

First thing that bothers me about the steam is the fact that all games get instaled into the steam client folder.
There we have another... Steam lets you choose where you want to install your games, split them all between multiple harddrives if want.

Every problem mentioned here so far has simple answers available, if you just bother to search a little. It is not intrusive software at all if you configure it to your choosing. No unwanted popups, downloading or anything. On era where everybody has broadband internet connections and multicore processors, i really don't find anything to complain about. Some games are really cheap, like 1-2 euros piece on discounts, if games are not completely free to play anyway (some examples MMORPG's Star Trek online, AION, DC Universe). You can't find that anywhere else.

SilverWarior
28-02-2013, 08:38 AM
Steam lets you choose where you want to install your games, split them all between multiple harddrives if want.

Would you like to share how you can do this please?

User137
28-02-2013, 02:14 PM
Click Install button, then first dialog that opens has "Choose location for install:", with a dropdown list where you can select different path.

Chesso
27-05-2013, 02:19 AM
How about getting VAC2 banned from Counter Strike because you have programs it doesn't like..... The VAC2 ban system bans just for having programs running or even existing on your system that does anything it doesn't like, even if it does not interface
with steam, vac or any steam games.

Now just because I write questionable software for practical jokes on friends and family.... well that's my business not theirs lol.

SilverWarior
27-05-2013, 03:55 AM
Whoa! Until now I haven't even knew about this. Now I'll definitly stay away from steam.
For instance let's say I have several dozens of games bought through steam and then I get banned becouse of some false-positive detection and this would ban me acces to all of them. Are you serious. That is the most ...... I can't find proper words to describe this without breaking the forum rules.

Besides no software has the rights to scan my computer for other software without my explicit permision. Such programs are othervise refered as Trojans or Spy programs.

User137
27-05-2013, 04:12 PM
Whoa! Until now I haven't even knew about this. Now I'll definitly stay away from steam.
VAC only bans specific game (or all VAC entrusted games, which are not that many), not disabling access to all your bought games. Don't be so easily manipulated :D Anti-cheat systems are no big news. Counterstrike is propably the most cheated game in history, and they needed equal measures to counter it. Not all games use the VAC, and even if they do, you propably need to actually play that game, for any scanning to happen. Blizzard is another company that uses Anti-cheating of their own.

As for false positives, you might be overreacting just a little bit. Yes they have happened in the past, but at the same time they're incredibly rare. Worst thing i saw reported was another unintentional trojan infecting players computers, and causing VAC alarm. Those guys were given another free copies. What comes to programming games, they will never hit that alarm for sure. Unless you're doing something stupid like CSMapHack.exe, that you run at the same time as playing CounterStrike might raise their interest.

Btw, most Steam games allow all manipulation of downloaded content. Skyrim as 1 example, Valve doesn't care 1 bit if you disassemble the executable and inject your own code to it.

Ñuño Martínez
27-05-2013, 05:09 PM
One thing that I dislike a lot about Steam is that it adds "games" to your library without permission. They're not actual games, they're only "announcements", but it's annoing and I didn't find how to disable it (if it's possible).

User137
27-05-2013, 05:35 PM
One thing that I dislike a lot about Steam is that it adds "games" to your library without permission. They're not actual games, they're only "announcements", but it's annoing and I didn't find how to disable it (if it's possible).
Possible yes, in the interface settings is something about new releases. I didn't even know it does something to game library too, i only ever had my own games there.
1161

Murmandamus
27-05-2013, 08:09 PM
My personal issues with Steam are mostly minor annoyances, rather than show-stopping problems which would force me to remove it from my system forever.

One, the client has a bad tendency to suck up a bunch of memory (>100MB) whenever it feels like it, and not release it until reboot.
Two, though it does let you install games on any drive, you still have to install them into its own managed directory structure. I have the vast majority of my games installed on, say "D:\Games", and I can easily browse that directory to find any game I have installed, EXCEPT for Steam games. They are ALWAYS nested several subdirs inside whatever "Library" folder you tell Steam it can use on that drive.
Three, I have turned off auto-updating on Steam and all the games in the past, and it STILL has randomly started up doing some kind of maintenance in the background, interfering with what I am doing at the time to the point where I have to shut it down completely to get it to stop.
Four, the client has developed a recent tendency to fail to connect to the Steam servers upon boot, and I have to tell it to retry every bootup/restart. Of course, for some reason, it also thinks I want to view the store window when I do that, so I have to close that down, too. "Retry connection" does NOT mean "take me to the Store!".

Outside of those and a few others not worth enumerating here, it works OK. I don't have any plans to publish games through an aggregation service like Steam; we're just going to stick with self-publishing.