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View Full Version : PGD DogFight Competition comes to a close...



savage
16-03-2005, 03:09 PM
I would like to thank everyone who decided to take part in our inaugural competition!

A page will be set up with links to all the entries and screenshots ( assuming they were supplied ).

For those who would like to test the demos before the results are announced, make your way to
http://www.vadertrophy.com/filemanager/ ('http://www.vadertrophy.com/filemanager/')

Type in the User ID of PGD and the password is also PGD ( case sensitive ). This will then allow you to download the entries.

Please post comments about the entries on this thread.

Thanks again to everyone who made this possible!

tux
16-03-2005, 03:25 PM
let the judging begin :)

Sascha Willems
16-03-2005, 04:20 PM
At last, so now I can tell my opinions about the other entries. I'll just do it entry by entry (alphabetical) :

AirBlast
The first one I tried out and one of the best I think. It sticks close to the dogfight theme and graphics and sound are rather nice (though the voice sounds a bit artifical). The only gripe I had with this was that the steering was kind of awkward, since it is more like in an ego-shooter than in a flight sim.

Area52
A bit too far off the dogfight theme for my taste, but still a great entry. It would have been fun to see this played over a network, since the AI is not very entertaining and most of the time just kills you cause he can fire so fast. Graphics are good, but only one scenario is not too much.

Dragonduel
The idea behind this is great, although something similar was already in a game called "Drakan" (which was also great btw.). Although it's about dragons, the dogfight theme clearly is in the game and it's also looking good. But I found the dragon models could have used some more polygons (maybe it's cause the MD2-format has a limit for number of polys) and steering isn't very easy to get on. But the AI is really a challenge (at least it's not blind nor too stupid).

Fight arena
Graphics clearly are top notch on this one, but as with Area52 I think that this game is a bit off the dogfight theme. It's a beat'em'up, and I enjoyed that kind of games years ago on my Mega Drive already (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Golden Axe, etc.) so this was no exception. The only negative point I found is that the game is (dunno why) running very slow in the arena where that light casts shadows, which may be a Radeon-related problem.

RunAWar
Looking nice and also playing nice, the characters are looking good and there are also dozens of pickups. What I didn't like was that there are no sounds (or music) at all and that e.g. you just die when walking onto water.

sodomaLite
Just dl'ed this one, but since it is only playable over network I haven't tried this one out. At least from the UI it looks very professional, but since this is a team-effort it's no real surprise that it looks so polished.

SpaceCadett
The second one I tried out. Graphics are a bit simplistic and the enemy is kind of unfair, since he can shoot about 10 times faster than I can. But besides this it's a fun small game that could make even more fun if it had a network mode.

Tankbusters
This one often crashes for me with an AV at startup, but after some tries it started up and was rather nice to play (except some ominous graphics bug with flower tiles that constantly move around the map). The tanks could move a bit faster, but besides that it's a solid game.

looh (edit)
After downloading and extrating four different ZIPs (you should have put at least a readme in the directory to tell what ZIPs are needed) I could not test it, since it still tells me that the game needs OpenGL 1.1. So this is the only entry I can't say anything about.


So in the end all of the games are good (and playable/enjoyable) so one can see this contest as a great thing for the pascal game developement community.

{MSX}
16-03-2005, 04:50 PM
At last, so now I can tell my opinions about the other entries. I'll just do it entry by entry (alphabetical) :

[list] AirBlast
The first one I tried out and one of the best I think.[CUT]

SpaceCadett
The first one I tried out. [CUT]

Uh ? :P :scratch: :mrgreen:

Huehnerschaender
16-03-2005, 07:36 PM
Hi people,

today the CeBIT ended and now I am back at home. My feet are history and I have no piece on my body which doesn't hurt.
But since I wanted to know whats going on with the contest I read the threads and played some of the games for a few minutes.

Very well done people!

So to give myself the feeling that my hard work on the compo was not for nothing, i decided to upload what I have until yet and finish my entry in time to give it to the community.

You can find it here: http://www.dino-it.de/warnrog.zip

This one is without sources, because I will change many things now I have no deadline waiting :)
I hope you enjoy it a little, even if it's not fully functional.

You need the following:
DirectX 9.0c installed
For 2Player-gaming you need a second PC and configure the server IP in warnrog.ini where you also can enter your players name. Didn't had the time to make it configurable in Menu, but this will included be in the final of course.

Keyboard-Commands:
Arrowkeys - move/turn
LSHIFT - run
a - throw weapon
s -cast spell
y - use item/potion
SPACE - pick up

I think this one could have been a good entry if only fate was with me and didn't steal me the time to finish it :(

But there are too many things left to do to enter it to the compo, so I decided to show my progress this way and then finish it without haste.

Please tell me what you think about it.

Greetings,
Dirk

EDIT:
I forgot to mention some things:

In menu chose character with Arrow left and right.

In game try finding the eye-item and use it :o) It gives you a mini-map
In game hit a tree a few times, it will fall
Press d to see yourself dying... (not perfect yet)
Press w to turn on/off collision shape view
Use teleporters by just walking onto them
Explore the map a little. I added another statue to the one you have seen in the screenshots.

when playing with 2 Players some things don't work.
But you see the enemy on screen, maybe you can hit him, etc.

Ok, I guess thats it

Sascha Willems
16-03-2005, 08:39 PM
Just tried your game HA¼hnerschA¤nder and it's really a shame you didn't make it in time, since the game (even in this not finished state) shows some clear potential. But since you now have no more deadline, why not make a nice Gauntlet-Style game with tons of enemy and co-op play out of it? That would be awesome!

Huehnerschaender
16-03-2005, 08:55 PM
Thanks a lot, man!

Yeah, I was thinking about this, too.
The "Gauntlet-Clone" was my first intention when starting with the game. I guess I will try to restyle some coding and then add some kind of lower AI to get some enemys into the game.
There are so many things I have in mind to make a (in my opinion) cool game out of it...

Let's wait and see if I find the time :?

Greetings,
Dirk

Sly
16-03-2005, 09:30 PM
We should change the news ticker at the top of the page. It is still saying that the comp is nearly finished and to click here to upload.

Mad_Aeon
16-03-2005, 09:37 PM
@Sasha willems:
As was stated in the initial rules, dogfight was intended just as "2 entities fighiting each other, from bacteria to solar systems.."
I thought that a combat game would have been close enough to the theme..
If the rules were more restrictive, I would have made a fighting-airplanes game too.. Well anyway, forget it ;)

If the game runs slow on some systems, you can disable shadows.
Just have a look at the readme (you'll have to modify settings.cfg)

savage
16-03-2005, 10:20 PM
Hi Entrants, I have a query for you...
I got an update this morning from Marcus about his entry called Area52.
Basically the update is so that his entry has a particular AI feature turned on. He actually told me about the AI bug at Midnight ( GMT ) last night ( I can forward the emails to anyone who wishes to see them ), but since I was alseep I did not get his email until 7:30am this morning and only replied to him then.

I received the email with that updated exe link at 8:30am, but was obviously at work and did not get the message until this evening, when I got home from work.

I think his update should be included as I could not reply to his email until this morning, but I wanted approval from the other entrants before I fully accepted it.

The 1MB exe file in question can be downloaded from...
http://www.plasmacode.com/Area52_EXE_works_with_ATI.zip

Does anyone have a problem with this??

Sascha Willems
16-03-2005, 10:39 PM
@Mad_Aeon :
I hope you didn't see my opinion as an insult. If that's the case then I'm sorry for that. But then again take the above as my personal opinion.

@savage :
I don't mind if someone patches his game as long as it doesn't mean that he includes a whole bunch of new stuff, so I'm not having any problems with the update to Area52.

Mad_Aeon
16-03-2005, 11:28 PM
@Sasha
I respect your opinion, and it didn't offended me at all ;)
PS
Nice entry, very good UI too. Did you make it all or was a team work?
I think it is probably the best entry and will probably win.. (my opinion here)

@Savage
No problems for that update, at least not in this case..

xGTx
17-03-2005, 03:57 AM
When can us none-judgest try em out? I vote now!!!


NVM! I found it ^_^

cairnswm
17-03-2005, 04:17 AM
Some games I cant download - the download is like 100KB instead of full size (DragonDuel and AirBlast)

Some games are obviously too high spec for my Notebook (Centrino 1.5, 1GB RAM, 64MB Intel Extrmem Graphics for Mobile) and just dont run at all - SodomaLite - and some are so slow it doesn't work - MadAeon. :(

I dont have a RAR extractor - will find one shortly

This left me with
Comic, MSX, Marcus to look at

Comic is weak, slow to load but actually quite fun when it starts and you've worked out how to move the objects. Needs different text colors and things. Nice smooth animation but not enough instructions.

MSX - was fun but how do I track the enemy like he does me - can he even miss. Nice smooth scrolling. Some nice AI in the enemy spaceship.

Marcus - sorry I dont like FPS games. Couldn;t work out eaily how to move. It changed my screen resolution when going full screen, and endless access violations on closing. When the enemy found me he stood in front of me and just let me shoot him dead :(.

Eric
17-03-2005, 06:19 AM
cairnswm, you can find the AirBlast download at http://glscene.sourceforge.net/index.php, maybe you'll have better luck downloading from there.

Of all the entries, I had crash issues with the two dgdev entries until I turned off sound, at which point the dragons one runs, but the tanks one still crashes after the basilisk logo. The tank game goes a little bit further with software mode, but as nothing seems to be able to move I'm not sure it's really okay... I'll try on another machine later (this one was an AXP with a GF3).
For the MindNever entry, I'm essentially stuck in the UI, I tried starting two instances on the same machine, but they did not seem to find each other. Is there a console or "cheat" of some kind to enter it with a single player?

More comments at a later time :)

{MSX}
17-03-2005, 07:02 AM
MSX - was fun but how do I track the enemy like he does me - can he even miss. Nice smooth scrolling. Some nice AI in the enemy spaceship.


Well you can always find where the enemy is by following the red arrow on the top right of the screen :)

Sascha Willems
17-03-2005, 09:40 AM
@Sascha
I respect your opinion, and it didn't offended me at all ;)
PS
Nice entry, very good UI too. Did you make it all or was a team work?
I think it is probably the best entry and will probably win.. (my opinion here).
No, it was entirely done by me, except for the aircraft models and the music wich were both freeware / public domain (but I still asked both makers about using them in my game), so only I worked on that entry. But I must admit that some things went very smooth, and e.g. the UI came along very well and just turned out to be rather nice (I had games were it took months to get a nice UI, this time it took only some days).

greent
17-03-2005, 11:33 AM
Some games are obviously too high spec for my Notebook (Centrino 1.5, 1GB RAM, 64MB Intel Extrmem Graphics for Mobile) and just dont run at all - SodomaLite - and some are so slow it doesn't work - MadAeon. :(


you should be able to run it on that machine, 'cause i menage to start it on my duron1.2G, 384MBRAM, GeFx2 32Mb, and runs ok on 640x480 in fullscreen.

Momor
17-03-2005, 12:21 PM
@cairnswm: weird there's a download error. In any case, you can give a try at DragonDuel from there : http://www.momorprods.com/dragonduel/

mrqz
17-03-2005, 02:11 PM
Area52
A bit too far off the dogfight theme for my taste, but still a great entry

"2 entities fighiting each other, from bacteria to solar systems.." :shock:


... since the AI is not very entertaining and most of the time just kills you cause he can fire so fast.

Ever player Q3,Serious Sam, or UT ? :shock:
Yes on harder level the enemy ha a faster gun, but you can always change the difficulty level. I managed to frag the bot on the Inferno level. Anyone else did?
And hey! You have the rockets! Go get the ammo on the middle bridge, press key "2" to choose the rocket launcher, fire the trigge, admire the magnificent explosion effect, and the physical reaction on close objects, like barrels. 8)
Also you should consider that the featured AI is able to drive the bot in a 3d scenario to find the player wherever he hides searching the shortest path possible, avoinding and jumping obstacles , climbing stairs,walking on roofs, looking for health powerup when he's too weak.


I hope the judges will take this in consideration.

Sascha Willems
17-03-2005, 02:20 PM
I say it again : Those are my PERSONAL opinions, so please take them for what they are. And yes, I'm playing many ego-shooter, including UT2004 where I played Instagib-CTF for years, so I know what I talk about. And I also never said that the AI in Area52 is bad or something, I just said that I did not found the AI-enemy very entertaining and that I would have prefered a network and/or splitscreen-mode.

mrqz
17-03-2005, 03:20 PM
I say it again : Those are my PERSONAL opinions.

Yes, i know. :)
I was just taking advantage from your opinion to remark my gamo's features. :wink:

alexione
17-03-2005, 04:49 PM
[quote="cairnswm"]
Some games are obviously too high spec for my Notebook (Centrino 1.5, 1GB RAM, 64MB Intel Extrmem Graphics for Mobile) and just dont run at all - SodomaLite - and some are so slow it doesn't work - MadAeon. :(

Hi!

sodomaLite requires DirectX 9.0c and hardware-acceleration on your video-card. I suppose that is the problem. Or, there is a bug :)

I'm now downloading games, and later, when I go home, I'll try them out... So, no comments for now...

Best regards
alexione/mindnever

alexione
17-03-2005, 04:52 PM
[quote="Sascha Willems"]At last, so now I can tell my opinions about the other entries. I'll just do it entry by entry (alphabetical) :


sodomaLite
Just dl'ed this one, but since it is only playable over network I haven't tried this one out. At least from the UI it looks very professional, but since this is a team-effort it's no real surprise that it looks so polished.


You can still try it on your own... Just fill player info, host game, choose table and go!

LP
17-03-2005, 05:32 PM
Please don't take this personally, all this is only an opinion which may be based on incomplete or misunderstood information... This opinion is written from "user/player" point of view only.

First of all, I must say - it was very difficult to find the "upload link" (to download the entries from there) - it was way hidden in the PGD Compo thread. Then, I and Soulhab tried most of the entries and we're sorry to say that somehow we're disappointed (honestly I expected more).

The most important issue was that about half of the games did not run from the start - access violations, errors, etc. We had to make "effort" to make them work (P3 1.2 Ghz, GeForce2 Go 32Mb, P4 2.4 Ghz, ATI Radeon 9k - WinXP SP2, Latest Drivers, DX 9.0c) - play with configs, etc. Second, most of the games "assumed" most of the controls which were very difficult to use (90% of all games had this issue). Maybe it was our lack of joystick, but at least 70% of the games we were unable to control properly (if at all). The ability to "configure" the controls can be good, but only for people who know what the game is about (experienced ppl?) We think the best game was AirBlast, which was probably the only one that worked right after installing and which we were able actually to control well.

Also, many games had an impressive quantity of bugs. Maybe many people were short on time, but the quality factor was very low in overall - most entries were gone to "functionality" (i.e. network play, etc.) where they could actually get more into "quality" (less bugs, more stable, multiple weapons, explosions, etc.)

Anyway, as for me, this is not exactly what I was expecting. All the bugs (installation and run-time) is the worst part of it... sorry if that's not exactly what you want to hear - I know you all worked too hard on this and would probably expect everybody to appreciate the effort, but testing the compo entries was more like an "buggy Win98-beta installation" experience rather than enjoyable one.

savage
17-03-2005, 05:57 PM
I have now added a link to the download area in the main News post.

Thanks for pointing it out LifePower.

xGTx
17-03-2005, 06:16 PM
Ive tried all the games. All ran fine for me. Except SodomaLite... I cant get it passed the Host Game menu :( .... However, im very pleased with all the games. I'm not going to say whos i liked best or anything just to keep it to myself and not hurt anyones feeling. What I do wish to say is that SodomaLite's UI is really awsome, i love it's pro feel :)

When i press host 1st time.. it says COnnection Timed out... I press it again it goes to level selection, but nothing after that happens.

tux
17-03-2005, 06:35 PM
same as xGTx, all the games at least start and/or play on my system (ive given them all a quick run through)

Sascha Willems
17-03-2005, 07:00 PM
@Lifepower :
You shouldn't forget that we all are just hobbyists, which means that none of us has a QA departement or dozens of PCs to test his game. I e.g. only had the chance to test the game on three different PCs (all with WinXP) and they all ran my game fine, but getting hands on more PCs with different configurations is not easy.
As for the controls it's also not easy, since the controls someone finds very easy to use are hard for another person. E.g. someone that uses to play with keyboard+mouse maybe has problems playing a game with a joystick.

LP
17-03-2005, 09:03 PM
ppl, keep in mind that my previous post was an opinion, not a dispute neither an argument ;) It's interesting how everybody is getting defensive or arguing just because of an opinion... just watching a message starting: "@Lifepower" (in bold!) looks already like pointing the gun at the bad guy ;) Peace... :roll:

Sly
17-03-2005, 09:16 PM
...like pointing the gun at the bad guy ;)
I read that as "...pointing the gun at the bald guy." :D

As a judge, I cannot express any opinions on individual entries yet, but one thing I can say is that everyone has put a huge effort into all the entries.

xGTx
18-03-2005, 05:32 AM
I want someone to tell me how to get SodamaLite to run!!! it looks so kick ass!

Gadget
18-03-2005, 08:34 AM
Please don't take this personally, all this is only an opinion which may be based on incomplete or misunderstood information... This opinion is written from "user/player" point of view only.

First of all, I must say - it was very difficult to find the "upload ]I[/b] and Soulhab tried most of the entries and we're sorry to say that somehow we're disappointed (honestly I expected more).

The most important issue was that about half of the games did not run from the start - access violations, errors, etc. We had to make "effort" to make them work (P3 1.2 Ghz, GeForce2 Go 32Mb, P4 2.4 Ghz, ATI Radeon 9k - WinXP SP2, Latest Drivers, DX 9.0c) - play with configs, etc. Second, most of the games "assumed" most of the controls which were very difficult to use (90% of all games had this issue). Maybe it was our lack of joystick, but at least 70% of the games we were unable to control properly (if at all). The ability to "configure" the controls can be good, but only for people who know what the game is about (experienced ppl?) We think the best game was AirBlast, which was probably the only one that worked right after installing and which we were able actually to control well.

Also, many games had an impressive quantity of bugs. Maybe many people were short on time, but the quality factor was very low in overall - most entries were gone to "functionality" (i.e. network play, etc.) where they could actually get more into "quality" (less bugs, more stable, multiple weapons, explosions, etc.)

Anyway, as for me, this is not exactly what I was expecting. All the bugs (installation and run-time) is the worst part of it... sorry if that's not exactly what you want to hear - I know you all worked too hard on this and would probably expect everybody to appreciate the effort, but testing the compo entries was more like an "buggy Win98-beta installation" experience rather than enjoyable one.

OMG, give these guys a break! They spent 3 months of their spare time at this, and it's not like it's going to get them a game dev contract or anything.

At the end of the day it's also open source so if it's so buggy, go examine the code fix the problems and make yourself useful!

:shock:

EDIT: Sorry if my reply seems aggresive, I just know how hard it is to get a stable engine that will work on different setups. Most of us are still learning :wink:

Sly
18-03-2005, 08:35 AM
I'm glad to say that all entries run on my main machine. Still testing on the second machine.

{MSX}
18-03-2005, 08:44 AM
people, if you find problems running SpaceCadett can you report it to me?
I'm using the same engine for many other project so it's really useful to have some feedback

Crisp_N_Dry
18-03-2005, 09:05 AM
Well unfortunately I was unable to download any of the games from the posted link so I had to rely on the alternative links that were given for some other entries. So I have played WarNRog, and DragonDuel and I downloaded JSoftware's entry and Area52 but Area52 simply wouldn't run and JSoftware's entry was unplayable. I was just floating through walls and flashing blue if I clicked the mouse. When I went to the this link [URL]http://www.vadertrophy.com/filemanager/index.php?nd=cairnswm[URL] and entered the username and password, I got into the list but any link I clicked on took me to the top entry which was JSoftware's entry. I'm using Firefox 1.0

Huehnerschaender
18-03-2005, 09:15 AM
@Crisp_n_Dry

War'nRog is not part of the contest. It was not uploaded in time and it is far away of being complete (although I think other aren't complete, too).
I just wanted to show what I have been on. I found it very sad not to be able to complete the game, but I wanted to show the community what I did so far. Maybe someone find it interesting to know that I will make a game out of this "engine".

This is just to inform you :)

cairnswm
18-03-2005, 09:19 AM
@Crispy

http://www.cairnsgames.co.za/dgdev/runawar.zip

cairnswm
18-03-2005, 09:27 AM
@Gadget

Thanks, we appreciate the support :D

I am trying not to be too defensive on commetns aimed at my game -

eg I felt like responding to the first post on this thread

Its part of the DESIGN! :evil:

But have tried very hard not to. So

Dying when you walk on the water in RunAWar was part of the design. :o

PS. Why the name RunAWar - I wanted a game that allowed you to "run a way" as part of the strategy, and as its a "war" game Run-A-War followed :shock:

Huehnerschaender
18-03-2005, 09:35 AM
Ok, and here is my explanation for the name "War 'n Rog":

I have two characters: Warrior and Rogue.... shortly said War 'n Rog.

But another intention was to adapt the name with "Fight and Rock'nRoll!"

I found it quite cool :lol:

Traveler
18-03-2005, 11:17 AM
@Crisp_N_Dry

I found the script to be unworkable in FireFox as well. Every entry went to the same page. Perhaps you recognise this problem?
After trying the script in MSIE it works just fine (for me anyway)

greent
18-03-2005, 11:27 AM
I want someone to tell me how to get SodamaLite to run!!! it looks so kick ass!

it' it lan game only, so it's recomended to have at least two players for minimum pleasure :-)

anyway, after you start the game, choose your name, ship and color, then host game.

in case that you get connection timeout, open the console with '`' (no quotes) (usally that's a character below esc on keyboard :-) and try either alt+f or alt+n (alt-f will work on lan, and alt-n will work on single machine connecting on 127.0.0.1). you should receive information about connecting to local host and connected players. after that, close console (same way you've opened), choose table, slect frag limit and voila - game should start. :-)

happy testing.

alexione
18-03-2005, 11:48 AM
I've just uploaded SP1 for sodomaLite - it fixes some bugs related to network communication. Also, now it's possible to start more than one copy of sL on one machine.

Original release:
sodoma.mindnever.org/sodomaLite.zip

sp1:
sodoma.mindnever.org/sodomaLite-sp1.zip

Note: capital L is mandatory!

dc0de
18-03-2005, 02:50 PM
@Crisp_N_Dry

I found the script to be unworkable in FireFox as well. Every entry went to the same page. Perhaps you recognise this problem?
After trying the script in MSIE it works just fine (for me anyway)

in firefox, you have to click the Parent Folder button to go back, you can't press Back on the browser, or you just keep getting the same page. I don't know if its the same in IE.

Ben

tux
18-03-2005, 03:23 PM
thats because it uses sessions. its not a bug its a feature :D

xGTx
18-03-2005, 05:30 PM
Thanks to the SodomaLite team! I can't wait to go home and try Alt-N :)

LP
18-03-2005, 05:37 PM
OMG, give these guys a break! They spent 3 months of their spare time at this, and it's not like it's going to get them a game dev contract or anything.
At the end of the day it's also open source so if it's so buggy, go examine the code fix the problems and make yourself useful!

Ok, so, what do you expect me to do? Say lies like "everything worked perfectly here"? When a gamer gets a game, he doesn't know anything about QA's departments, nothing about "how hard the work was" and "how long it took to development" and "how hard they tried". A player usually gets the game, tries to install it and then play it and that's exactly what I and my partner did. The result/feedback was written in a form of comment/opinion. The fact that we experienced problems installing the entries and then playing some of them (due to "difficult" controls) may be taken as a form of feedback.

xGTx
18-03-2005, 06:34 PM
Ok, i tried Alt-N... says "trying to connect" "timeout"


Then i tried using the SP1... Cant even press host button with it :(

Sascha Willems
18-03-2005, 07:00 PM
Same here. No matter what I try, it always says "Connetion timeout", so I can't test it. It may have been nice if you would have included a splitscreen-mode.

Edit :
I got it to work. It seems that when I'm online my firewall somehow refused the game from starting (although I allowed it). So when I'm offline I can host a game.
So as for the game : It looks nice and movement is also a nice idea but I had several technical problems :
- Random, but very frequent hick-ups which make it quite unplayable.
- Collision is not working 100%. Sometimes you don't collide at all and most of the time you can pass through objects though you collide with them.
- Sound turns very awfull (oversteers maybe) as soon as I fire, otherwise it's good.

xGTx
19-03-2005, 06:26 AM
Disabled my network connection and it worked as well.

I had no hiccups, game ran smooth unless i was shooting and trying to turn, then it lagged up and sound FX went awfull.

Other then that, graphics where brilliant. :) Ship movement was fun, especially at high speeds.

greent
19-03-2005, 08:29 AM
Ok, i tried Alt-N... says "trying to connect" "timeout"


Then i tried using the SP1... Cant even press host button with it :(

well... alexione fuxed up :-)

anyway, i've told him about the bug, and he will fix it as soon as he gets home

greent
19-03-2005, 09:15 AM
I got it to work. It seems that when I'm online my firewall somehow refused the game from starting (although I allowed it). So when I'm offline I can host a game.
So as for the game : It looks nice and movement is also a nice idea but I had several technical problems :
- Random, but very frequent hick-ups which make it quite unplayable.
- Collision is not working 100%. Sometimes you don't collide at all and most of the time you can pass through objects though you collide with them.
- Sound turns very awfull (oversteers maybe) as soon as I fire, otherwise it's good.

during testing, we had no 'hickups' in game except during collision. collision NOT work 100%, as this is usally a problem as we
had little time to finish it as we planned, and if you're persuasive enough, you can pass through anything :-)

as for shooting sound, in the config/init.cfg file, change the sound.far on 0 value to turn it off

also, for sp1, alexione told me that the 'bug' is that you have to press enter after typing in the player name and as i said before, he will fix this soon.

Gadget
20-03-2005, 08:54 AM
OMG, give these guys a break! They spent 3 months of their spare time at this, and it's not like it's going to get them a game dev contract or anything.
At the end of the day it's also open source so if it's so buggy, go examine the code fix the problems and make yourself useful!

Ok, so, what do you expect me to do? Say lies like "everything worked perfectly here"? When a gamer gets a game, he doesn't know anything about QA's departments, nothing about "how hard the work was" and "how long it took to development" and "how hard they tried". A player usually gets the game, tries to install it and then play it and that's exactly what I and my partner did. The result/feedback was written in a form of comment/opinion. The fact that we experienced problems installing the entries and then playing some of them (due to "difficult" controls) may be taken as a form of feedback.

I do agree that's feedback, it just seemed a little sharp. It would have made more sense to have provided a complete set of feedback, on a per game basis.

WILL
20-03-2005, 09:10 AM
I think the idea here is to be constructive guys. It is a little harsh after you have put a lot of effort into your game to have it quickly tucked into a tiny nutshell and given back in a way you don't expect. Now though he could very well have been more gratious about it, he did give you some important information along with that. Bugs and other issues that other systems and setups my have problems with.

I know it very quick to take these and make them into a big firefight, but do try to make the most of the responses you get and improve your work rather than be distracted and discouraged by negative responses.

I personally feel that you have all done very well by getting something in such short time in a medium that not too many have pushed this much. And for that I offer my finest 'Good job!' to you all. ;)

savage
20-03-2005, 09:32 AM
May I suggest that all entrants start a new thread on Your Projects (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?f=9) for each game, so that we can all provide constructive feedback/suggestions and ideas about your entries ( judges please hold off until after the winners are announced ).

Just to clarify, this thread is for comments on all the entries in a compare and contrast manner, while if you think an entry could be improved by adding X and Y, then add those to the entrants specific thread on Your Projects (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?f=9).

Traveler
21-03-2005, 07:46 AM
Sascha, I just read your post mortem about JagdGeschwader. A nice read indeed! I was wondering if there's something you would do differently for the next competition (if there's ever going to be one of course).

In any case, thanks for putting this one up.

Sly
21-03-2005, 10:57 AM
I was thinking of a small obfuscated Pascal code contest, along the same lines as the International Obfuscated C Code Contest (http://www.ioccc.org/). To borrow and paraphrase the goals of the IOCCC:
:arrow: To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated Pascal program under the rules below.
:arrow: To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way.
:arrow: To stress Pascal compilers with unusual code.
:arrow: To illustrate some of the subtleties of the Pascal language.
:arrow: To provide a safe forum for poor Pascal code. :-)

Sascha Willems
21-03-2005, 01:22 PM
Sascha, I just read your post mortem about JagdGeschwader. A nice read indeed! I was wondering if there's something you would do differently for the next competition (if there's ever going to be one of course).

In any case, thanks for putting this one up.

Glad you liked the post mortem. What I'd do otherwise next time? I can't really tell, since most of the things I wanted to do went they way I wanted. But I'd definately spend more time with the networking mode to make it feel better. It was put in at an early stage, but doing networkcoding and testing wasn't much fun so I always pushed it back until two or three days before the contest's deadline. What I'd also do would be to include some different game modes. I wanted to do that for this entry already (and even wrote down some of the other modes) but haven't had the time.

But all-in-all I was very pleased with what came out at the end, especially if I compare it to the very first version of the game.

{MSX}
22-03-2005, 08:21 PM
One thing i'd like to say is about crossplatformness :P

On 18 sept 04, talking of a proposed cross platform game compo, WILL said:

Well the whole point of the Compo is to promote cross-platform game development. Otherwise, I'm sure we'll just have a bunch of Win32 only DirectX games made in Delphi.

Try nothing new, learn nothing new, aspire to nothing more...

This message appear to have predicted quite accurately what happened.
AFAIK my entry for Dogfight was the only one to be cross platform, running on Linux too. That was a little disappointing for me, i was expecting at least a significant part of the entries to be cross platform too.
I've probably overestimated linux usage from other members.

I've saw some entries using JEDI-SDL, so that the work for making them cross platform would have been very little.

So no one is interested in developing for linux too ? We all talk about how much we hate windows but than we (you :P) keep sticking to it.
This was a chance for us to do something concrete for linux.

I can ensure that it's not any more difficoult to make a game cross platform instead of window only. You just have to use the right libraries.

WILL
22-03-2005, 09:04 PM
I think a fair majority of the entries have the potential to become multi-platform games. It wouldbe a great initiative for someone to go through and try compiling under Free Pascal and see if they can get a Linux or OSX port made.

I think the only reason that this was not done by the entrants was that they probably simply didn't have a Linux or OSX box available to them.

Sly
22-03-2005, 09:45 PM
I believe the much touted aim of cross-platform compilability is over-rated. I see the effects of it every day here at work where we have to support an engine that has to work on PC, PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. If your primary aim is to be cross-platform, then you end up supporting the lowest common denominator. For example, Gamecube and Xbox have some wonderful rendering functionality that the PS2 does not have, so to be cross-platform the higher performing platforms must be brought down to match the lowest. To take advantage of the strengths of each platform, you have to write a whole load of platform-specific code. In the end, you may as well have written the whole thing once for each platform.

cairnswm
23-03-2005, 04:52 AM
If the level you develop at is lower than that Lowest Common Denominator then it should be OK :)

Run-A-War should work on Linux as it uses my S2DLibraries that are based on JEDI-SDL. I dont have a linux box to compile or test on.

Eric
23-03-2005, 05:53 AM
> I'm sure we'll just have a bunch of Win32 only DirectX games made in Delphi.

The Win32 and Delphi part ended true enough, but I'm under the impression DirectX isn't exactly all-dominating :wink:
Cross-platform means a lot of extra testing, a lot of extra driver or compiler things that can go wrong... when you have a deadline, these aren't particularly favourable factors - well, even when you don't have one actually :lol:

{MSX}
23-03-2005, 07:06 AM
I believe the much touted aim of cross-platform compilability is over-rated. I see the effects of it every day here at work where we have to support an engine that has to work on PC, PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. If your primary aim is to be cross-platform, then you end up supporting the lowest common denominator. For example, Gamecube and Xbox have some wonderful rendering functionality that the PS2 does not have, so to be cross-platform the higher performing platforms must be brought down to match the lowest. To take advantage of the strengths of each platform, you have to write a whole load of platform-specific code. In the end, you may as well have written the whole thing once for each platform.

I don't completely agree on this.
The issue about the common lowest denominator is indeed often true (just look at lazarus :P), but i think that it just need some work to be fixed. Just hack the missing features in some way. For example firefox integrate perfectly in every platform it runs.
I completely disagree that writing some platform specific code generates as much work as writing the whole thing once for each platform.

As cairnswm said, hardly any of the entry used "high functionality". Tell me one feature present on the games that doesn't exists on linux.

Well also the issue about "i don't have a linux box" sound strange to me. Last time i checked Linux was completely free :) In many cases they can even send you the CD at home for free! I just did this with Ubuntu (http://shipit.ubuntulinux.org/).
So to have a linux box one just have to download it and install, it's not something one really can't afford.
Curiously it should be less strange to read "i don't have a windows box", since indeed windows costs hundreds of dollars. :D

About the extra testing, ok, you surely have to test it twice, but i can tell you that once you have a running basecode (for example once you have a GL window set up and some basic rendering functions), than all you build on top of it will run almost without problems on different platforms.
I managed to have a cross platform entry on the same time other did a windows only entry. Mine was quite simple, ok, but that's becouse i'm incredibly lazy :P

So, in the end, i hoped for more linux entries.. Maybe the next time ?

Traveler
23-03-2005, 08:00 AM
Just hack the missing features in some way.

Thats the start of all problems. For something non trivial a hack 'may' be considered, but when it comes to basecode you can't just hack something in so that it'll work on an other machine as well.


I completely disagree that writing some platform specific code generates as much work as writing the whole thing once for each platform.

I dont think it wasn't meant literally, but to a degree I do think this is very true. You mention the browser FireFox, but lets go a bit futher. Think about creating a fancy DHTML website that has to work on Netscape 4.x/6, msie 4.0/5.x/6.x and Opera all on Mac OS or PC (yes, I realize most are now all old browsers). I had to do this more than once, and I can tell you, getting it to look and work the same in all browers, it definitely takes a lot of time.


So to have a linux box one just have to download it and install, it's not something one really can't afford.

I don't think its its a matter of one not being able to afford Linux, but more of knowlegde and time. Linux still has the reputation of being difficult.

Sly
23-03-2005, 08:08 AM
Linux still has the reputation of being difficult.
I would definitely agree with that. I have tried Linux several times (various RedHat versions and Debian) and have been sorely disappointed each time. But I digress. This is leading into a which-is-a-better-platform discussion, and there is no correct answer in those discussions. :)

Eric
23-03-2005, 08:18 AM
> Linux still has the reputation of being difficult.

The most difficult part IME are drivers. I just have never been able to get any Linux distros to support everything. Even baseline drivers like video drivers are problematic and typically require intricate command-line manipulations.

K4Z
23-03-2005, 08:20 AM
haha, a few years back I got hold a little linux pack for 8 bucks. It contianed Red Hat 8 and mandrake 9, with 6 cd's of software and games.
A few months ago I built a pc for my mum, and she wanted Windows XP.
XP alone costed about $160(AU). It also needed about 500 bucks more for virus scanner, word, publisher, etc etc, all the extra crap that windows needs.

$160 for one buggy O.S, or $8 bucks for 2 O.S's and over 4 gigabytes of software, just don't know what people are thinking sometimes...


Any way, I think portable code should be kept in mind when programming anything.


Linux really isn't that hard to use, only at first cos it's a bit different. I remember 10 years ago after using only DOS, trying to understand how the hell to use this all 'new' Windows 3.1 :shock:

cairnswm
23-03-2005, 08:31 AM
I'd rather spend the time writing the next thing for my game than spend the time trying to get a box dual bootable Windows/Linux - Yes I need dual bootable as all the game CDs I have at home for my kids are Windows Based.

I run 4 PCs at home -
My Notebook - Centrino 1.5
My Desktop - P4 - 3GHz
My Old PC - P3 - 700MHz
My Very Old PC - P1 MMX - 200MHz

I have collected a Number of 486s at home - I want to install Linux on one of them but then I wouldn't be able to run my games.... Sort of makes Linux a problem in my life.

savage
23-03-2005, 12:45 PM
If your primary aim is to be cross-platform, then you end up supporting the lowest common denominator. For example, Gamecube and Xbox have some wonderful rendering functionality that the PS2 does not have, so to be cross-platform the higher performing platforms must be brought down to match the lowest. To take advantage of the strengths of each platform, you have to write a whole load of platform-specific code. In the end, you may as well have written the whole thing once for each platform.

I also would have to disagree to a certain extent. If GC and XB support certain functionality that another console does not, isn't this where Object Orientation could be used so that each platform takes full advantage of the available bells and whistles, while not affecting other platforms? Thus your GC and XB rendering class ( while the rest of the game stays the same ) can take full advantage of it's niceties without having to pander to PS2's reduced capabilities.

Or are you trying to say that in real world game development, OO just doesn't come into it and that large portions of the code is re-written for each platform?

Eric
23-03-2005, 01:27 PM
> [...] Thus your GC and XB rendering class [...]

If you have to write different rendering classes, then in effect, haven't you written different pieces of code, that in practice, aren't cross-platform?

savage
23-03-2005, 02:32 PM
If you have to write different rendering classes, then in effect, haven't you written different pieces of code, that in practice, aren't cross-platform?

I agree, yes you are writing different pieces of code, because that is what you do in specialised classes, but I was arguing about having to support "lowest common denominator" features, and that whether you use OO or some well structured procedural code, this should not necessarily be the case.

But I am still interested in what happens in a real game development environement like Krome Studios (http://www.kromestudios.com/), where Sly works.

Sly
23-03-2005, 09:57 PM
I also would have to disagree to a certain extent. If GC and XB support certain functionality that another console does not, isn't this where Object Orientation could be used so that each platform takes full advantage of the available bells and whistles, while not affecting other platforms? Thus your GC and XB rendering class ( while the rest of the game stays the same ) can take full advantage of it's niceties without having to pander to PS2's reduced capabilities.

Or are you trying to say that in real world game development, OO just doesn't come into it and that large portions of the code is re-written for each platform?
In principle, yes. In practise, the same data is used for all platforms (the artists do not want to create separate data for each platform), so the main factors taken into account are not only code, but also content creation. To use the abilities of XB and GC to their fullest, you need content created specifically for those platforms.

Some development studios embrace OO. We use it to a certain extent, but try to keep a C interface to the engine. As nice as some features of OO are, a simple C interface is still a beautiful thing. Also, one thing that OO forces you to do is to expose your private and protected variable and methods in the class declaration. Sure, the user of the class may not be able to access them, but they are still there in the header file. A C interface allows you to keep the internal implementation, including all veriables and functions, 100% private.

greent
25-03-2005, 12:35 AM
we've created small presentation for sodomaLite

http://sodoma.mindnever.org

savage
27-03-2005, 02:50 PM
Hi All,
A Competition page has finally been set up @ http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/competitions/PGDCompetition2005.html

This page currently lists all the entries in alphabetical order.

When the winners are announced I will change the page to be in order of ranking.

If you would like your game screen-shot image changed or have a download link with the latest version of your game or would like to tell me what components/tools you used while making your game, please let me know in the next couple of days so that I can update the page with the latest and greatest information. This is the link we will be giving to websites like flipcode.com and gamedev.net once the winners are announced. So the more up to date it is the better it is for all concerned.

Sascha Willems
16-04-2005, 09:44 AM
Just wanted to let you guys know that I received my first price via E-Mail yesterday. It was the licence for the 3Impact Engine, so thanks go to the 3Impact Team. I only tried out some of the samples, and although it uses Direct3D (I prefer OpenGL) it seems to be a great engine for at least prototyping demos/games/apps.

So as soon as I receive the other price too I'll put up a news message on my page to thank the sponsors.

Sascha Willems
25-04-2005, 08:48 AM
Me again ;) I just received my copy of Caligari's gameSpace this morning. So thanks go out to Caligari for sponsoring it!

savage
25-04-2005, 09:35 AM
Thanks for keeping us posted. I was going to contact all the winners to make sure that the prizes had been sent out.

If anyone is still missing a prize by the end of this week, please let me know and I will chase them up next week.

cairnswm
25-04-2005, 10:22 AM
Thanks for keeping us informed about all the lovely prizes you are recieving :P You know, it makes us all really jealous and envious of your success :shock:

I love it when someone rubs it in that they did better than me :evil:

:)

Well I'll have to try harder next time :D

savage
26-04-2005, 09:17 AM
Just FYI, I'm thinking of holding a demo competition in July. Not sure if there will be any prizes though.

On another note, could the top 7 entrants please post what they consider to be the feature lists for their games. I would like these to accompany my flipcode Image of the Day submission, concerning this competition.

Thanks.

alexione
26-04-2005, 05:07 PM
Hi, everyone:)

Just to say we've got Nexus Memory Manager (THANX to nexusdb)! Unfortunately, we'll not test it in sodomaLite since I moved to FreePascal... Just for one reason: we didn't won!!! :( ... ;)

Yes, we plan to make sodoma(Full) and to make it a commercial product. As for sodomaLite, it'll be free-for-download-try-and-never-stop-playing game, and its final release is set for the beginning of May/2005 (probably until middle of May).

More info is available at http://sodoma.mindnever.org.

As for gameSpace from Calgary, still nothing... :(

Stay tuned, and happy coding! :)

cairnswm
26-04-2005, 06:52 PM
Sure Savage - where do you want them posted?

How do you define a "Demo contest", I've never quite understood this concept of a "Demo"?

WILL
26-04-2005, 08:43 PM
How do you define a "Demo contest", I've never quite understood this concept of a "Demo"?

Inspired by your question I have decided to write my knowlage of what Demos and the culture behind it is. Have a read here (http://www.pgd.netstarweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=2171).

savage
26-04-2005, 08:50 PM
A demo, for me, is showing off various techniques usually based on a theme. For example a few years back there a were a few Lord of Rings or Blade themed demo contests. So contestants basically had to write a demo that revolved around those themes. Demos are usually self running and often loop, and the only user interaction is to press the ESC key to shut down.

Have a look at this demo ( http://www.sulaco.co.za/nitrogen/files/exe/Foundry13.zip ) to get an idea of what I mean. This demo was themed on Earth, Water, Fire and Air. Actually there is a post mortem of the demo available @ http://www.sulaco.co.za/nitrogen/projects.html and also source if anyone is interested.

PS. Guys please supply a feature list for your games :).

Sascha Willems
27-04-2005, 07:57 AM
I guess the list shouldn't be too long, so here's the one for JagdGeschwader :
4 different WW2 aircrafts to choose from
4 different scenarios
Stunning graphics using OpenGL (huge terrains, foliage, water reflections, explosions and more)
Arcade-like aircraft physics using the Newton Game Dynamics engine
Two players on one PC using splitscreen or two players over LAN/Internet


Hope that's enough and I hopefully didn't forget any of the features from my entry ;)

savage
27-04-2005, 05:21 PM
Hi Sascha, can you mention what tools you used for the modeling/texturing.

Sascha Willems
27-04-2005, 05:39 PM
As for modelling :
I didn't make the models for the aircrafts myself (used Freeware models, with the permission of their maker), but I changed some stuff on them using 3D Studio MAX. The trees were made using TreeMAGIK (which is Freeware).

Texturing :
I used my own TerrTexGen and T2 (depending on which one gave a better looking terrain texture) for the terrain textures, Corel's Bryce for the skyspheres and Photoshop for some afterwork/manipulation on the textures. I also used Adobe's Photoshop for the whole GUI.

savage
27-04-2005, 05:45 PM
Great thanks.

alexione
28-04-2005, 01:35 PM
I've just got gameSpace this morning! Thanx to Caligari:)

And here's feature list + development tools list for sodomaLite:

sodomaLite Feature-list
=======================

- action shooter multiplayer-only game
- 2.5D game (full 3D view, 2D game-logic)
- created using our own powerful Grom(tm) realtime multimedia engine
- 3 different ships (fast, balanced, heavy), each concepted for different playing styles
- 3 different maps for up to 8 players per map (maximum players number map defined; real number virtually unlimited)
- user-defined color for ship
- inertial movement (configurable through setup files)
- smooth network gameplay; automatic search for server
- radar view
- secondary weapons for enhanced in-game action
- original musics & sound effects
- automatic detection of tables, ships, weapons & music
- configurable number and types of gameplay view(s)
- powerful in-game console which allows full control over complete game
- visual enhancements: startup screen, cursor autohide, fades


Development tools
=================

- programming: FreePascal, Lazarus (originally Borland Delphi 7), Euphoria
- modelling and animated content created with LightWave3D v8
- original graphics created with Photoshop CS

savage
28-04-2005, 02:56 PM
Great to hear that the prize has arrived.

savage
28-04-2005, 07:13 PM
I'm still waiting for feature lists for Dragon Duel, Space Cadett & Area 52. Come on guys, I really would like to submit this IOTD.

Thanks,



Dominique.

{MSX}
29-04-2005, 07:04 AM
My feature list for SpaceCadett:

- Cross platform: works on Linux and Windows
- Compiles, with fpc, delphi, kylix
- 3D engine
- Challanging AI enemy
- Easy dogfight gameplay
- Simple and funny cartoon style graphics

Development tools, platforms & libraries:

- Lazarus
- Delphi
- Kylix
- Blender
- Gimp
- Debian
- JEDI-SDL
- OpenGl
- OpenAl

savage
29-04-2005, 08:27 AM
Thanks Nicola,
Actually I don't have a feature list from Eric either. So it's AirBlast, Dragon Duel and Area52 left.

rif
29-04-2005, 07:03 PM
AFAIK the source code for Eric Grange's game Airblast has not yet been published anywhere.

Do anyone know, when and where will the source code be available?

tux
29-04-2005, 07:58 PM
its in one of the folders where the game as installed

savage
29-04-2005, 08:25 PM
It is also part of the GLScene CVS. I imagine that when they next do a public release of GLScene it will be a part of it.

rif
03-05-2005, 08:51 PM
its in one of the folders where the game as installed

Oh my goodness, I have been searching the internet in vain for something that I already have on my own harddisk. :-) Thanks for the hint!

rif
06-05-2005, 09:28 AM
FYI, I have added dog fight competition winner Airblast to the Delphi application list at

http://delphi.wikicities.com/wiki/Good_Quality_Applications_Built_With_Delphi

savage
06-05-2005, 10:57 AM
That's a great little page. Thanks for pointing it out..

savage
10-05-2005, 10:58 AM
I was still missing some details about some of the games, but decided to send it in to Flipcode anyway. It is today's IOTD @
http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/fcarticles.cgi?show=65375

cairnswm
11-05-2005, 04:51 AM
Thats just so COOL :)

except for the "oh its pascal comments" :)

Traveler
11-05-2005, 07:42 AM
thats just so COOL :D

Indeed! Makes me wish I had finished my entry too :?

I found most comments to be quite possitive. I'll keep an eye on this iotd for the next couple of days to see what else is going to be written about it :)

WILL
12-05-2005, 01:27 AM
except for the "oh its pascal comments" :)

Thats ok. ;) We want those reactions. It just gets them thinking. And that is a good thing for a change. Finally some good ideas start conflicting with the bad ones and eventually new idealogies are formed.

Pascal, it's not your fathers anymore. ;)

savage
05-01-2006, 09:17 PM
I hope everyone from last year is getting ready for this year's competition. The prizes should be announced in a few days.