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Phobeus
06-08-2005, 08:20 PM
Because it might be intersting for every cross-gamedeveloper or OpenGL developer in general. www.opengl.org new headline is "Call to Action: Help to ensure that OpenGL remains a first class API under Windows Vista". It tried to find some good answers to the OpenGL/D3D-Wrapper planned for Windows Vista. Have a look there for further informations if you are intersted in.

Paulius
06-08-2005, 09:56 PM
I don?¢_~t get what?¢_Ts that big of a problem. The whole D3D mapping should really only mean the death of MS software OpenGL implementation, which I dough doubt anyone will miss, API implementation is afterall provided by video card manufacturers drivers, the worst it could mean is that OpenGL framebuffer might need to be blitted to a D3D surface, costing a bit extra fillrate.

Phobeus
07-08-2005, 08:53 AM
Yes, you really didn't get the point completly - thought the headline would say enugh. If it would be just an replacement of the old software implementation the whole ARB consortium would start a big party and not a public call. As it seems (beta isn't public yet...) it is not possible to run Aero glass (not Aero! - the new desktop) together with an OpenGL ICD. You won't have the chance to choose another ICD, as soon as one is running you have to switch to MS OpenGL wrapping OpenGL over D3D and then over WGF 1.0 (why not directly?) or to switch back to Aero (the old desktop system). As solution it seems like you can run opengl in fullscreen and switch back the desktop without user notice it. This was confirmed in forum of an employee of 3DLabs (ARB member). Everybody except MS is sure that the desktop would also cooperate easily with ALL OpenGL ICD and that it could cause great damage to opengl in public, if windows needs to switch back features. MS is talking about stabilitiy and security they are risking when using OpenGL directly...
However the beta isn't public yet, but I would keep an eye on the discussions started as an opengl developer. To get an overview about the new MS Graphic Systems, have a look at this paper: http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/8/f/98f3fe47-dfc3-4e74-92a3-088782200fe7/TWPR05007_WinHEC05.ppt

Paulius
07-08-2005, 09:34 AM
And what would prevent hardware manufacturers from making OpenGL run as it is now in fullscreen, and use a blit to a D3D surface in windowed mode?

Phobeus
07-08-2005, 10:19 AM
Microsoft. If the vendor connects to OpenGL via ICD aeroglass switch back. Like you notice, it won't be technically impossible to realize. In fact in would be pretty easy, however it seems like they simply don't want to use it. Of course, you might no also say... ignore aeroglass who wants to use a desktop system eating lots of RAM and CPU? Yes, if course, but imagine what happens, when MS is saying: Non aeroglass envroiment is not DRM compatible (in fact OpenGL driver would be a weak point...), "user, you cannot play your DVD anymore because video industry would kick our butt."
Just keep you up to date... as long as there is no public beta it will be hard to check out everything, but I guess we have to take this serious and every opengl developer should protest at microsoft against this plan, speaking trust to their hardware vendors to stand against this idea and inform about it. ARB is taking this highly serious and they won't afford a simple "MS bashing"...
Also look at http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=265311&page=3&pp=15 at the post of eskil. I cannot confirm that he is really a ARB member, but what he wrotes is possibly better than mine and already confirmed at several sources.

Clootie
08-08-2005, 05:20 PM
Just to note:
Windows'XP already have OpenGL wrapper. If you use drivers supplied with WinXP install CD -> then OpenGL applications will run throw this wrapper.

BenBE
11-08-2005, 11:46 AM
I'll do passiv resistance: I'll not switch to windows Vista and also won't program for DirectX just because of some damn firm that want's me to. I have no reason and an emulated layer for a graphics API is just the best reason leaving a platform. What makes this even more courious: Watch at this ;-) http://www.gamedev.net/gdpolls/viewpoll.asp?ID=200 I think Microsoft will have at least half of them against the new system ...

How comes that a Phobeus has only that few posts in a graphics\game dev forum?