Chat?

[Darkhog]

How about adding chatbox into forums? I've seen many chat plugins for vBulletin and this would allow people to chit-chat about whatever (don't suggest offtopic section - I'm talking about realtime chit-chat). Of course to avoid s(p|c)ammers, chat would be available to users that were accepted in new members section.

[SilverWarior]

We actually do have realtime chat (AJAX based chat) we were testing some time ago but it never caught on. You have to realize that PGD members come from all around the world so it is quite hard to catch up with most of them due to time difference.
Anywhay if you wanna try it go to http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/chat/?lang=en but I'm afraid that for most of the time you will be there alone.

[User137]

Have to put it in the bookmark toolbar ;) Maybe put the chat link there next to "What's New?", if possible. It would catch more attention i'm sure.

[Darkhog]

Well, if it would be IFRAMEd in forums, I'm sure there would be more people on it, since some may simply don't know about it (like me and User137 it seems).

[SilverWarior]

Wehn Jason (Will) decided to include live chatting capability to PGD site he wanted something whoc would also be compatible with mobile devices (ability to connect usins special mobile APP) but he wasn't able of finding suitable solution.
So current chat is one of rare that fits the basic desires that Jason wanted from it:
- non third party dependable, so you are not dependant on whether some third party service orks or not
- no need to use custom web service as this would only complicate site managment (especially with previoust site host)
- ability to integrate site login creditentials and therefore preventing the chat system to be swarmed with various pam bots (happens to IRC chat rooms quite a lot).
- ability to be able to use this chat system from mobile devices. As far as I know this chat system should work on most mobile browsers (haven't tested it myself).

But the current chat system does have some problems.
The biggest problem which we didn't manage to figure out for quite some time is automatic logouts that were throwin user out of chatbox system in the midle of their chat sesions. You can't like any chat system which would simply throw you out while typing your next message.
Jason was actually planning on removing the chat system for that but then I managed to figure out why this is happening.
The chat system uses PGD site cookie for checking login creditentials. And becouse by default PGD cookie has 15 min avliadtion (automatic logout after 15 minutes of inactivity) this caused users to be thrown out of chat box 15 minutes after the last activity on PGD site (browsing through forums).
Workaround for this is using permament login to PGD site (checking "Remember Me" during the logon process). This creates a permament cookie for PGD site.
Of course using permament cookies is not always desireble. For instance if you are accsing PGD site from some public you definitly wouldn't like to use permament login becouse if you forgot to logut you actually alow someone else to acces PGD site using your login creditentials.
Also many users simply have permament cookies disabled in their browsers so they can't use this workaround at all.

Now if you realy desire this chat system to be visible from front page I can talk to Jason about including a link on front page for it. But I think we can all agree that this chat system should only be avialable to registered users of PGD, moderated users excluded unles you wan't it to be filed with various spam.

[Darkhog]

Well, I think iframing it would be better solution (less clicking, more chatting). And of course, it should be available only to registered and verified members of PGD.

For cookie issue, maybe it'd be wise increase default cookie length to like 3 hours or so or treat sending message in chat as "site activity" and refresh cookie (possibly last option as it would be cleaner)?

[SilverWarior]

Well, I think iframing it would be better solution (less clicking, more chatting). And of course, it should be available only to registered and verified members of PGD.

I don't think this would be good solution as many mobile device browsers lack IFraming capability.


For cookie issue, maybe it'd be wise increase default cookie length to like 3 hours or so or treat sending message in chat as "site activity" and refresh cookie (possibly last option as it would be cleaner)?

Yes increasing lifetime of cookie could be done easily. But unfortunately the chat message itself doesn't supports cookie interaction so it can't renew them and in such way indicate forum activity.

[User137]

I don't really like that chat system actually. Everybody seeing everything that's happened before is a little breach of privacy imo. Doesn't give a very casual feeling from the start. Who knows somebody likes to discuss reallife matters, foods, games and so on, do we need to see all of them if we weren't part of discussion? Also i've been in numerous IRC chats, and never seen a single spammer. I don't really know where your experiences with them base on.

[wodzu]

I would really like to see a chat possibility on the main form even as a hyperlink to other page.:) If I would not read Darkhog's post I would not know about this funcionality.

[imcold]

I vote for an irc channel, Freenode is a nice place to hang around. Also, we could use a bot for authentization, checking login and password against the forum db is easy.

[Ñuño Martínez]

I use IRC often so let's create #pascalgamedev or something!

[Darkhog]

Ñuño, while I know how to use IRC, I dunno how to make channels. So if you know, maybe you could make one, perhaps on freenode, then post channel name and server name in new topic and let WILL pin that? I think it would be good enough.

[User137]

That's a start. I'm now on channel #pascalgamedev in FreeNode irc, using NetTalk client. Chose that 'cause it's free and lightweight, with relatively good features.
Server: chat.freenode.net
Room: #pascalgamedev
It's simple command /join #pascalgamedev
If there's nobody on the channel, then it's automatically created and you might get moderator status. At least you can register your nickname by following guides you get from:
/msg NickServ HELP

You can also try http://webchat.freenode.net/

[Darkhog]

Yeah, I know about that - but when no one is on someone may take over channel. To protect channel from that would involve setting up IRC bots and that's outside of my capabilities. Anyway, I don't have time to be channel operator so someone else should be.

[imcold]

IIRC you could register the channel just like the nickname (but it might have been on another network). I'll join tomorrow.

[Darkhog]

I think Freenode support ChanServ (that's name of this service), but as you said it's network-specific. Some networks has it some doesn't. Anyway, I've tried to make channel for my site (now R.I.P.) few years ago and couldn't get ChanServ to work properly, though it was on Quakenet or esper.

[phibermon]

I'm getting deja vu...

[Darkhog]

I'm getting deja vu...

Meaning unknown. Requesting explanation.

[User137]

At least i get response from ChanServ:

<PRIVATE:Zaflis>help flags
- ChanServ: ***** ChanServ Help *****
- ChanServ: Help for FLAGS:
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: The FLAGS command allows for the granting/removal of channel
- ChanServ: privileges on a more specific, non-generalized level. It
- ChanServ: supports nicknames, groups and hostmasks as targets.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: When only the channel argument is given, a listing of
- ChanServ: permissions granted to users will be displayed.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: Syntax: FLAGS <#channel>
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: Otherwise, an access entry is modified. A modification may be
- ChanServ: specified by a template name (changes the access to the
- ChanServ: template) or a flags change (starts with + or -). See the
- ChanServ: TEMPLATE help entry for more information about templates.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: If you are not a founder, you may only manipulate flags you
- ChanServ: have yourself, and may not edit users that have flags you
- ChanServ: don't have. For this purpose, +v grants +V, +o grants +O
- ChanServ: and +r grants +b.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: If you do not have +f you may still remove your own access
- ChanServ: with -*.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: Syntax: FLAGS <#channel> [nickname|hostmask|group template]
- ChanServ: Syntax: FLAGS <#channel> [nickname|hostmask|group flag_changes]
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: Permissions:
- ChanServ: +v - Enables use of the voice/devoice commands.
- ChanServ: +V - Enables automatic voice.
- ChanServ: +o - Enables use of the op/deop commands.
- ChanServ: +O - Enables automatic op.
- ChanServ: +s - Enables use of the set command.
- ChanServ: +i - Enables use of the invite and getkey commands.
- ChanServ: +r - Enables use of the unban command.
- ChanServ: +R - Enables use of the recover and clear commands.
- ChanServ: +f - Enables modification of channel access lists.
- ChanServ: +t - Enables use of the topic and topicappend commands.
- ChanServ: +A - Enables viewing of channel access lists.
- ChanServ: +S - Marks the user as a successor.
- ChanServ: +F - Grants full founder access.
- ChanServ: +b - Enables automatic kickban.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: The special permission +* adds all permissions except +b, +S, and +F.
- ChanServ: The special permission -* removes all permissions including +b and +F.
- ChanServ:
- ChanServ: - ChanServ: Examples:
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo foo!*@bar.com VOP
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo foo!*@bar.com -V+oO
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo foo!*@bar.com -*
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo foo +oOtsi
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo TroubleUser!*@*.troubleisp.net +b
- ChanServ: /msg ChanServ FLAGS #foo !baz +*
- ChanServ: ***** End of Help *****
Basic info is here http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml

[SilverWarior]

Here is a crazy idea ;)

Why don't we create PGD based TeamSpeak server?
I'm sure many of you know what TeamSpeak is but for those who doesn't know here is short explanation:
Teamspeak is comunication platform which alows both IM messaging by tping text of VoIP comunication. You can create your own server. Within that server you can define seperate rooms. When you are in a room you can hear all other members of this room. You can protect each rom with specific password to preven anyone entering in. TeamSpeak also alows client to client file sharing. Teamspeak clients work on Windows, Linux, MacOS, iOS and even Android.
And the best thing about TeamSpeak is that it is quite comonly used by gamers so many pepole already have TeamSpeak clients installed on their computers.

EDIT: Another advantage that might come in handy is the ability to record the conversations so Jason(Will) could use it for recording future podcasts.

[User137]

Teamspeak server costs money, and you are also forced to primarily receive voice data. For us programmers, and being international community, actually seeing everything as text is very important. I have tried TS2, TS3, Ventrilo etc on some MMO's, but i have nothing good to say about them. Point is not getting across as well as good old text.

So come join the IRC now ;) Total 3 was seen today. I guess sunday is to blaim that no discussions were raised. We need some tricky programming problems i guess!

[SilverWarior]

Teamspeak server costs money

Not if you are using it for non-Profit.
http://sales.teamspeakusa.com/pricing.php

[WILL]

I'm getting deja vu...

Meaning unknown. Requesting explanation.

Do a search for "IRC" through all the old posts here on PGD. :)

I hate the idea of raining on this parade, (as there is so few interested in contributing to the community these days) but the problem is that people in this community don't seem to like to contribute unless they can do it a couple of times and then give up. A lot of the people that used to contribute and continue contributing over an extended period of time have grow apart from the community sadly.

Unfortunately PGD has become a community of consumers rather than contributors for the most part.

By all means start an IRC channel or some other way to try to build the community at large, but unless you plan on staking your efforts into something that the majority will join in on and you plan on putting a lot of effort into, you'll probably end up wasting your time in the long run.

Notice many news posts on the front page lately? That's because I stopped. :) I've been too busy with family and my own commercial efforts lately so I've had to let the contributions to the community slip a bit. Sadly this means that everything slips because noone else puts in the required time and effort. (Save for the few that have been helping to keep the "invisible" spam away and welcoming newcomers. Thank you very much btw!!!)

If you really want to help the community, I'd invest in this place more. News, striking up design/development topics and talking about them in the forums, regualr blogs with imagery and video embedding (that's why I bought vBulletin for the community!) volunteering to run an event like a PGD Challenge. (There is lots of information on how, it just takes the time and effort.)

[Ñuño Martínez]

(...) Unfortunately PGD has become a community of consumers rather than contributors for the most part. (...)Sadly true. :(

I've found a job, and it will include game development (8)) so may be I can be more "productive". :)

[Darkhog]

Notice many news posts on the front page lately? That's because I stopped. :) I've been too busy with family and my own commercial efforts lately so I've had to let the contributions to the community slip a bit. Sadly this means that everything slips because noone else puts in the required time and effort.
If you really want to help the community, I'd invest in this place more. News, striking up design/development topics and talking about them in the forums, regualr blogs with imagery and video embedding (that's why I bought vBulletin for the community!) volunteering to run an event like a PGD Challenge.
Speaking of which, I've submitted tutorial and it still has status of "Not published". Can you put it or at least give me powers to actually review/accept/publish things submitted to the site?

[User137]

I could put some effort to keep the IRC channel up every day, but i can't do that 24/7. It would also be possible to activate the nickserv, but only if i start seeing anyone else than myself every few days ::) I also assume many game programmers are players too, so we could try gather our common knowledge on that matter, and host some multiplayer games.

[SilverWarior]

Speaking of which, I've submitted tutorial and it still has status of "Not published". Can you put it or at least give me powers to actually review/accept/publish things submitted to the site?

To be honest I hasn't aproved that becouse to me it doesn't seem as tutorial.
Yes you point out some good points about what pepole will encounter while developing games or other applications but that is not enough for tutorial.
Tutorial should explain in detail of how to do something like how to develop State Machine for instance.

[Ñuño Martínez]

I could put some effort to keep the IRC channel up every day, but i can't do that 24/7. It would also be possible to activate the nickserv, but only if i start seeing anyone else than myself every few days ::) I also assume many game programmers are players too, so we could try gather our common knowledge on that matter, and host some multiplayer games. I use IRC a lot, so I can log-in the channel every time I log to it, even if I'm not an op. May be it helps. :)


To be honest I hasn't aproved that becouse to me it doesn't seem as tutorial.
Yes you point out some good points about what pepole will encounter while developing games or other applications but that is not enough for tutorial.
Tutorial should explain in detail of how to do something like how to develop State Machine for instance. May be a place in the forums to discuss the new tutorials might help.

[SilverWarior]

May be a place in the forums to discuss the new tutorials might help.

I have opened a discusion about this with site admins. We will shee where it goes.

[WILL]

Speaking of which, I've submitted tutorial and it still has status of "Not published". Can you put it or at least give me powers to actually review/accept/publish things submitted to the site?

Cool, I'll have a look. PGD Staff do not receive notifications of new articles so it really helps to PM any or all of us when you have created something that you would like to have published on the site. And these days I'd recommend PM'ing more than one person. Esp. if you are trying to get a hold of me. ;)


Sadly true. :(

I've found a job, and it will include game development (8)) so may be I can be more "productive". :)

Well industry experience is a major plus when taking that experience and applying it to the community here. Knowing how things are done successfully as apposed to poking around in the dark and hoping for the best. lol I can tell you lots about that.

But then I can of course now tell others loads on how to setup and establish an Object Pascal based environment to develop games and apps for OUYA game console and Android. In the end I managed to work with some people that had quite a bit of experience working with professional developers and they taught me a lot too.


I have opened a discusion about this with site admins. We will shee where it goes.

Good call! I will throw my spare change in there too so that anyone truly interested can gain the advantage of what "wisdom" I am able to bring to the table.