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K4Z
19-09-2005, 06:36 AM
WILL messaged me about creating some designs for his MultiPlayer Platform Game.

So, after a late night followed by an early morning :o I toyed around with some ideas. After a few attemps here's an Android that's starting to take shape: (An idea for the main character, or perhaps a different generation 'Brother' droid)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_One.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Two.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Three.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Four.jpg

C&C PLZ!

Will, is this the type of design you had in mind? or would you prefer a more chunky Mecha sort of look?

Firlefanz
19-09-2005, 11:31 AM
Lookin' very good indeed!

Firle

K4Z
19-09-2005, 12:22 PM
More shots :) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Five.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Six.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Seven.jpg

JSoftware
19-09-2005, 12:25 PM
looks very pretty, indeed

K4Z
19-09-2005, 04:02 PM
Thanx guys.

Here's another shot, he's about 90% complete now :D :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eight.jpg

Traveler
19-09-2005, 08:13 PM
The model looks quite qood! I'm not too keen about the one eye though, especially because there appears to be room for two. I'd also do something else with those arms, but I'll explain later why.

Are there any final thoughts about the size of the sprites? I ask this because I've learned that not every model is good enough to be used as a sprite in a platform game. Especially large, narrow, nonfamiliar sprites tend to loose a lot of important detail when they're resized. (32 pixels is really a problem)

To show this, I've resized the side view version of your robot (to 58px, http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/K4ZRobot.jpg) and already even without legs its showing some problem areas. The large arms for example are not recoqnizable anymore. Adding legs will make the loss in detail even more noticable.

There's no easy solution for this, but to check what things do when it resized to a smaller version.

Paulius
19-09-2005, 08:37 PM
That?˘_~s some nice modeling K4Z. Perhaps after you?˘_Tre done slaving for MSX and WILL a few low-poly wipeout style futuristic hovercraft for me? :P

WILL
19-09-2005, 10:05 PM
Hey it's looking pretty nifty. :)

First thing I have to say is that I like the flow of the white peices! Now I have to do the part I just hate. :P

Things to change... (It may be long with lots of description, but it's just to give you an insight to my mind rather than pick apart your great work. ;))

I'm going for sleek and simple to start. The robot will be upgraded as you play the game, but for the sake of a good base to start from we should start at the begining. I'll start from the top down.

1) Take off the 'ears' or wings, as they would be too 'flashy' or fancy for a first model or prototype anyhow. The screw like parts are ok I think, but I may have to see once the wingy looking parts are off to tell.

2) The Eye... I'm digging the one eye idea... but it'll be better for the enemies, bosses and other things you fight. We want our hero to have a humanistic feel to him so a wider single eye might work better. We could try two seperate eyes, but my fear is that it might end up looking cartoonish, if you know what I'm trying to say. :scratch: If we give him a cyclops (yes from X-Men ;)) kind of eye peice it might up the cool factor while remaining sleek.

3) Sholders, Arms & Legs: They are too ratchet-like. It's probably the only part I didn't like too much. There is a kind of electronic muscle called an 'actuator' and it basically works exactly like a human muscle does... only it's controlled by a flow of mechanical electricity. Try thinking of black(or really dark dark grey) cables or cords wraped around a elaborate metal sholder joint for a humaniod looking sholder, knee and elbows... The bicepts and thighs don't need to have bulk to them like a normal human does, but the knees, sholders and elbows need to have a flexable look to them. For all the running dashing and jumpping, right? ;) The hips could be covered in white more with a it more of the 'actuator' look to them aswell.

You can even get away with partially covering the elbows and knees a bit in more upgraded versions. Or 'shells' I think I shall refer to them as...

4) Chest... I'd prefer a one peice chest, kind of like a plate of knights armour. You could go all storm trooper on the guy and go that way too... The chest jsut looks a bit caved in or weak... even for a weaker version. Well there shouldn't be more armour on the back than the front I think... It just seems to make him look like he's gonna flop backwards in weight distrubution...

5) Lastly.. feet... if you can make it look more like one peice the joint or toe part is more solidly a part of the main part of the foot it's look a wee bit better. ;)

Well thats about it... Considering that it's only a first concept (and that there were no other versions done), I'd say that it's a great start. Normally when an artist comes with concepts he'll have several there and the 'co-ordinator' guy will point out which ones he likes most,the artist will then go with those and make several more concepts and from those the one gets chosen.

But we're hardly a big company so we have taken up reading minds and witchcraft to meet our goals. :p

:lol:

Nice stuff KAZ! Don't get get discouraged, I like what you've done. Gimme more and we'll get this guy into the game. ;) (Literally!)

K4Z
20-09-2005, 02:59 AM
Cool, thanx guys, constructive criticism is really helpful.

This guy is just a preliminary design, something to show WILL so he has something to say Yay or Nay to. So I really don't mind too much about hacking him up 8) .

Here's some thoughts, most of which I agree with whats been said.

Eyes:
Originally he had to two eyes, but as WILL said, it did make him look rather cartoony, with a dumb look on his face. I'll just need to experiment. Having one eye piece like x-mens cyclops would probably look too robocop :o , and it would take away any expression and feel away from the face. (As much expression that a robot could have :lol: )

Render Size:
The final frame size will be 48x64. So I have a bit of room to work with. Of course, trying to render the model in it's current state into those dimensions would be hell; I've modeled it in high res to help give me a more detailed view on specific parts. This helps enormously when I do a low poly version for rendering, or when creating pixel art.
When the time comes, hopefully I'll have it all sorted out :wink:

Ears:
(lol I actually the started the whole model with the ears first :o )
It was the design of the ears that set the style for the rest of the model. Without them (or with smaller ears) it makes his head look too small and odd shaped. They really help to 'flesh out' the shape of the head.

Sholders, Arms & Legs:
I don't really like them either, I just quickly added anything so you can see the overall shape. I had thoughts about creating the Electronic Muscles, but then the model would start to look those those crappy robots in iRobot :? . But yeah, this is defiantly one part that's need to change.

Chest:
The chest is always the most challenging part to model. He does look a little weak, especially if he's the main character. This part is going to need the most work/changes to get looking right. Having a fully 'Enclosed' chest makes him chubby looking, kinda like a snow man :lol: . But I have ideas on how to improve this.

Feet:
I hate modeling feet, lol. Feet are really annoying to model, they are so simple looking, but hard to get it to look just right.
I kept animation in mind while modeling though, it's hard to see but the foot is one piece, with the 'toe' able to bend, so it has a more fluent walk cycle. It didn't look right without the toe, but I can just chop it off :wink:


So, yeah, thanx heaps for clearing up exactly what your looking for. This is the first of hopefully many many more designs, So I don't really care how much he changes.

And to quote WILL from a message,
'... also keep in mind that the hero is the hardest to create. You can hate a small enemy or even a boss in a game, but you CAN'T simply dislike or hate the character in a game that you are playing'

The main character is always the one that takes the most criticism, it will make or break the game.

Remember to point out bits you hate, and the bits you like and want to be duplicated more.

---


That?˘_~s some nice modeling K4Z. Perhaps after you?˘_Tre done slaving for MSX and WILL a few low-poly wipeout style futuristic hovercraft for me?
Lol, maybe I should charging :wink:

WILL
20-09-2005, 07:54 AM
Hmm... well reguarding the robot's expression it can change via color and level of light emitted from his eyes. Also his stance will reflect his attitude combined with his eye-peice. But I'm not stuck on any ideas, it is just one of many things to try.

Ideas for features I'd like to consider taking from: Mega-Man(now, it was very much an anime-type cartoonish theme, with big bright blinking eyes and all, but some of the body designs and features were pretty darn cool, esp. when you got to the later additions at the end.), I, Robot yes I know you don't like them overall, but I'm refering to just the NX-5 models' idea of the sholders, knees, etc... at least how I remember them anyway...

The Matrix has another inspiring set of features for robotics. I'm not talking about the squids and the funky screensavers, but more the materials used and such.

K4Z
20-09-2005, 08:19 AM
Ok, I've done some changes.

He here is with two eyes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eyes2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eyes1.jpg
I dunno, he looks kinda doofy like that, like his eyes are wide open :shock: .

I also started experimenting with the 'Muscles':
(Also modified his chest, enclosing it more)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Muscles1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Muscles2.jpg
They are comming along well, still needs a lot of tweeking. I don't really know how the hell exactly I'm to attach them to the frame though.

and..feet, yes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Feet.jpg

---

Yes, mega man had a very cool style, in fact, I think i'm going to play it right now.
The Matrix has an awesome style of robots, don't know if I could ever come close to matching anything like that :P

Firlefanz
20-09-2005, 09:18 AM
One eye looked better I think. :shock:

firle

Sly
20-09-2005, 01:05 PM
I prefer the two eyes, but they look like they are stuck on as an afterthought. What if they were elliptical (major axis being horizontal) and set back into the head a bit further? Beneath and behind the eyebrow instead of being in front of it.

I'm not sold on the 'muscles'. I think you still need to see part of the frame beneath.

If I remember rightly, MegaMan had oversized feet which a lot of these anime style robots do.

Traveler
20-09-2005, 01:21 PM
Before I start I usually go out to do some research. Helps lots for inspiration and all. Sometimes I even hit jackpot.

Here's a sample including multiple animation cycles + full size model
http://www.fragile-minds.com/~fs/fs-sprites/megaman_q.gif

Firlefanz
20-09-2005, 02:04 PM
I think K4Z's Droid looks way better than Megaman, I like the style of the new Droid. Some Images in the size of the later game would be interesting. :D I would use it! :wink:

Firle

K4Z
20-09-2005, 04:08 PM
Here's another design in the works, with the same style as the previous robot. He's much more 'Buff', perhaps a Gaurdian Bot from a more Combat oriented generation.

(This one is actually based off a design I started before the robot above, hence the one eye :lol: )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidThree_One.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidThree_Two.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidThree_Three.jpg

I've also got some completely different designs on the go too, more mega man astro boy-ish. But I don't think a Chibi kinda style would be better, Who (How old) is the target audience? (I mean the story, so far, is really good, it desevers a more 'Mature' style I think.)

Keep the C&C comming!

K4Z
20-09-2005, 04:29 PM
Oh, and thank you Sly, that helped heaps. Didn't think of putting his eyes INSIDE of the head, lol. It looks much better now, I think I may just like the two eyes now :D .

Before and After:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eyes1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eyes3.jpg

WILL
21-09-2005, 06:52 AM
Oh some more feedback... I think we have lots of great stuff here!

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eyes2.jpg
This image works best to explain my point best I think.</center>

I like this head shape, with the 'ears', but not for the first version... It'll be an upgrade! :D But I think we'll use it. It simply looks great from the side.

However, I'd like you to try and modify it, removing the top point object above the screw-like object. And to eliviate the akwardness of the head... just round it off nicely, but just a bit so that it looks like the sides of the head near the temple is more paralell with each other.

For the hips maybe another white peice to cover up the complexity of the joint. (a sort of cheat, but with a cool-factor result ;))

One last point is on the arms... if you can make them look 'slightly' corricated-like just to solve a curiosity of mine(if it looks bad then we'll to back and try something else to make them look more like REAL cable-like looking) and also tighten them together more so they look stronger. It'll help to not have any small gaps between them when spriting them aswell.

Oh and of course the chest still needs some work. Hmm you know what? Try checking out Robocop or the new Starwars Trilogy for ideas...


I like the new(I guess original one) all the while peices are perfect! Perhaps trying to put a metalic ring around the light to make it look like an installed peice(if you know what I mean). Try the same thing you did with the main character's neck(the black part) on this one... and then try to enhance it with those, hydrolic looking peices a bit closer to it, but attached below the collar peices. It'll make it look more functional that way I think.

Some great ideas KAZ, keep em comin'! ;)


Oh and nice MegaMan sprites Alex. :)

K4Z
21-09-2005, 08:03 AM
Ok, I'll get right onto those changes.

While modeling I try to keep in mind that during the game the main character will change. So most designs are not quite the finish product, not quite 'Prototype' look, somewhere in the middle. Hence why the design is made up with seperate white pieces, makes it look functional but not quite finished. So some bits will be removed for early game sprites, and put back for later game.


---

Here's a more MegaMan style of robot, Very simplistic at this stage, just to get a feel for the look:
( An idea for a bad guy 8) )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/BotOne_One.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/BotOne_Two.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/BotOne_Three.jpg

Yes? no?

Firlefanz
21-09-2005, 08:05 AM
Very cool indeed! :D

firle

{MSX}
21-09-2005, 05:22 PM
ahah too cool the big red robot :P I want one :D

technomage
21-09-2005, 08:31 PM
K4Z

I'd watch it if I were you. You're PM inbox will be overlfowing for graphics work if your not careful :wink:

This is all fantastic stuff :D Keep it up.

Sly
21-09-2005, 09:46 PM
I call him the Big Red Ketchup Robot. 8)

Or in countries other than America, the Big Red Tomato Sauce Robot. :)

K4Z
22-09-2005, 06:30 AM
Haha, glad to hear you like him :) .

I've modified the first robot's head how I think WILL wanted it. Making the sides of the head around the temple more paralell to the lower half. And pulled in the ears to follow the shape. He looks much 'sleeker' now, and less cartoony. Is that how you wanted it?

I flatened his 'brow' so he doesn't look so wide-eyed.

Also have shots of him without the ears, that will be used in the early game.

Here are some shots for comparison:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Eyes2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Head1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Head2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Head3.jpg

LP
22-09-2005, 05:11 PM
K4Z, these models are pretty cool! The material looks a little bit like a plastic though and somewhat lacks of texturing, but perhaps this is intentional.

Any possibility to know what tools you used to create this? :)

Traveler
22-09-2005, 06:41 PM
Any possibility to know what tools you used to create this?
That'll be Lightwave. :D

Nice job on that red robot. Can't wait to see it animated!

WILL
22-09-2005, 10:35 PM
<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwo_Head2.jpg
Yes, This is good! :)</center>

As for the red robot... It's a totally different look/feel to it, so I'd rathre stick with the two white ones we have already instead. ;)

But it is really cool! :D

Ok, any improvements to the chest cavity? It needs to be 'filled' out more. like a semi-built athlete. Were not talking arnold, but think of a fit human figure.

The feet seem alriht from before also, bit perhaps a teeny bit longer.... just a touch...

And also I can't wait to see how the arms will turn out next. But the head is good. I think we are there with it.

K4Z
23-09-2005, 12:21 AM
These models are made just with Lightwave. The plastic look is intentional, and there's kind of no point for textures as they will be unseen by the loss of quality when it comes time to render the sprites.

I'm currently rebuilding the chest, a little more muscular and whole, but not too much. Also starting again with the 'muscles' on the arms, just can't get them right at the moment.

---

Even though he's still got a bit to go till he's finished, I completely rigged him up. So now he has movement 8)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/DroidTwoSitting.jpg

WILL
23-09-2005, 01:20 AM
Nice... :)

Hey, you know what? He needs hands! :P lol

Robert Kosek
23-09-2005, 01:36 AM
WOW! Good grief, I wish I could model like that! :o

K4Z
30-09-2005, 06:17 AM
I've been kept really busy with a lot projects, so work on the robots have dropped a bit.

But here's a few shots of a new chest, more enclosed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two2_One.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two2_Three.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two2_Two.jpg

Better? Worse?

---

And for those wondering, here's a really quick Pixel Art example of how the final sprite might look. 8)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/TestSprite.jpg

Ofcouse, I still need to pick out a lot of detail and exaggerate parts a bit more. He might be a bit tall, but that depends on how big the enemies will be compared to him.

WILL
30-09-2005, 09:01 PM
MUCH BETTER! :D

The new chest is great. Looks more... impressive, I think is the word.

OH and remember we were going with the other head, without the ears for the first one.

The ears come in a different upgrade. Perhaps adding to speed or the ability to jump higher or a jet pack addon...? There ya go... more ideas to toy with. ;)

But for the beginning, use the more clean head you did. He has to be real 'clean' of any potential upgrades since he is a prototype. And as it says in the story, 'not completed' yet.

The sprite looks great! I really like it's look. If we went that way instead of a 'Donkey Kong Country feel', I'd go fo that. :)

Well I guess we should discuss that then huh? Do you feel you can pull off a DKC set of sprites for our little demo? Or would you feel that we can get a nicer set of graphics by going the way of pixel-drawn sprites? I really want to capture a polished look either way. Keeping it 'professional' in design.

It also helps if you want to sell the game eventually. ;)

I'd prefer the DKC 'pre-rendered graphics' method, but I will be just fine with the pixeled sprites. Maybe you can give me more options or more insight into this issue, since you know your abilities and the graphics tools best.

Oh and the arms and legs look better on your sprited version too. ;)

Ah and hands... hands need to be added. But we can make it look like they are like addons themselves. ie. attach a weapon or some other tool in place instead... This could also add to the praticality of some fun features of gameplay. (Remember in Megaman that you get new weapons by beating a Level's Boss at the end? We can works something like this here too, but in a more practical way.)

K4Z
01-10-2005, 03:01 AM
Ok, I've tried to recreate the same pose in 3d, and created a pre-rendered version:
(With my Pixel Art sample for comparison)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/RenderMedAA.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/TestSprite.jpg
(It may be hard to see exactly, as I couldn't upload bitmaps)

Lol some bits I was way off :lol: .

I actually made two renders, one with Anti Aliasing and one without. I overlayed one over the other so the sprite has smooth lines, but the outside is pixelated. That way when it's drawn in game it doesn't have that white edge around the sprite.
I've kept the magenta background so you can see the sprite better.

The pre-rendered version does look more professional, and at the same time it picks up some detail, and loses others. If I spent more time on the Pixel Art version I'd be able to make it look much better.
But which style would you prefer? I generaly like Pixel Art better, but the pre-rendered sprites would be quicker to make. Either way I'am happy :) .

Yeah, I know the first version doesn't have the ears. Once I've actually finished the model, I'll then chop bits and pieces out, and add new things for each individual version. How he is now is just a basic intermediate phase :P

WILL
01-10-2005, 11:53 PM
Well thinking it over for a bit...

I think if you are confident more so in your ability to do the pixeled version of the sprites, then we should go that way. As much as the pre-rendered versions would be a more professional quality and impressive format, it would just take way too much to pull it off, considering all the graphics that would go into the game.

There is still a need to develop tilesets and backgrounds along with all the enemy robots, menus/dialogs and of course bosses.


So lets try that then. It might even make the graphics process easier too.

Oh and I prefer PNG anyways. Smaller file sizes and no color loss.

K4Z
02-10-2005, 01:43 PM
I didn't quite get that :P . Did you say you wanted pixel art or pre-rendered?

After some more thought, pre-rendered would probably be the way to go. It's a lot quicker, especially when it comes to creating each animation frame. And I'm finding that I'm getting less and less avaliable time as the weeks go by :cry: .

However, as for the backgrounds I'm not sure, but it might be harder to model all the scenery, etc in 3d. Especially for a platform game.

I dunno, might need some experimenting.

---

Ok, I've done some minor tweaking here and there. I've lengthened the feet, widened the arms and legs a little bit, given him a waist, and a bunch of other little bits that I won't go into. Oh and he has hands now :D .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_One.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_Two.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_Four.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_Three.jpg

---

I'm still trying to perfect the 'muscles',here's a pic but they still need a lot of work:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_Muscles.jpg

---

And I started modeling ideas for a JumpPack, that might be an upgrade later in the game :D :D :
(Two ideas, based on a sort of anime style)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_JumpPack1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Droid_Two3_JumpPack2.jpg

I think that's just about it. Has any more work been done on the programming side of things?

technomage
02-10-2005, 01:46 PM
Jasonf and I had a dicussion about art work the other day. We use the idea of programmer artwork and graphics. This is not top/production quality but good enough to get a feel of things and get things running. Perhaps this is the way to go. Do some pixle artwork while developement is going on then work on the production pre rendered stuff along side. That way you can get demos and working version up and running without having to wait for art work.

I'm using the same theory for the Alert Fighter, the quality of the models I currently use isn't very good, but that will be sorted out once the engine is stable and playable.

just my 2 cents worth. :)

WILL
02-10-2005, 04:11 PM
Wow, the first hand upgrade! :D

I like the booster jets idea. Try using the diagonal ones lower to where the verticle ones are. ;) For that upgrade I could allow for either an actual jet burst that makes you 'fly' for a few seconds like in Megaman 6(for the NES) or a on time jump in mid-air burn.

You know what? I agree with Dean(technomage). We should make a basic set of sprites for the robot to work with in the engine. I think animation will be required for the next few features I'll be adding next anyways.

The first version(convieniently) will have no hands. He is an incomplete prototype, right? Also minus the ears, but with 'muscled' arms. I think the idea with the hands will be you get them first to make the point to the player that you can upgrade this part of the character and to introduce them to the upgrades system.


Here is the animations that I'll need:

Standing(maybe a blinking loop for long standing-still moments),
Running,
Jumping,
Falling,
Taking damage,
Climbing Up/Down Ladders/Ropes & Chains, etc(my next feature where I will need ladder tiles too),
Dashing(probably going to be some sort of upgrade for later, but just in case), and
dying(maybe showing sparks and him falling lifeless or something).

I'd put shooting, but we haven't come up with weapons yet... We can make that happen with a set of weapon firing animations for each type of weapon we add though.

As for the pre-rendered/pixeled issue if we go with pre-rendered sprites we'll have to go pre-renered with the whole thing, backgrounds and all. Vice versa. However special effects, like sparks, flares and glows can be rendered in via code. :)

WILL
02-10-2005, 04:47 PM
New Post because it's a different issue in this topic.

Tilesets... Right now I have 32x32 tiles but only one layer. I was thinking of having 2 layers and a background panoramic.

1st layer: Tiles that are behind the players and other characters. Walls, floors, etc...

2nd layer: Stuff that the characters and players will be hidden behind. Great for breaking up scenes and adding detail. It also allows for hidden items and other gameplay features of this nature.

Thanks to either Dean or Incubii's suggestion, the game engine can support any size of tile. Provided that the map ran allows for enough object tiles so as to not sneek between where I check my points for collission detection.


BTW I've updated the source file I uploaded to PGD. ;) Clicky! (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/files/188/Shooter.rar)

K4Z
03-10-2005, 07:42 AM
Ok, I've done some test animations with the robot.
I've animated it frame by frame, with 10 frames of animation. It's a little clunky at the moment, but it's just a test:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/TestRun.gif

(He does look spiffy with his muscles on :wink: , even if you can't make out the details)
---

I think the muscles should be a seperate upgrade. 'Cos he looks a little too completed with them. The Muscle upgrade could allow the 'Dash' ability, and a little more height when you jump.

For the very very first sprite I will strip him down, leaving only the bits (amour) that give him his overall shape.

---

So, if WILL's happy with how the robot is now, without any drastic changes (excluding upgrades), I could make a full set of test sprites for the engine.

Sly
03-10-2005, 07:48 AM
With the muscles, he looks like an Imperial Storm Trooper, that is, a guy wearing a black rubber suit with white plastic armour strapped on.

I think he looks best without the muscles. He looks like a robot, and he's proud of it. I like seeing the metal frame beneath the armour.

WILL
03-10-2005, 08:04 PM
I like it! :)

Giving it some thought... I want the muscles on the original 'incomplete' first model. Reason: I hate the crappy metalic '$1.99 robot' looking arms and legs that much. :P

Besides we can come up with more enhanced muscles for him later on. It just won't be as visual, unless we come up with a super heavy lifting model. Sometimes it's not the looks of something than the materials used inside. It'll just be one of those non-visual upgrades...

But the 10 frames is alright, it'll give us some smooth animation. If you send them to me in a zipped bmp file (ala. the game engines's format) be sure to make them 24bit(MS Paint compatable) and the transparent color will be cyan(R=0 B=255 G=255). All frames will be in one horizontal row. Faster to draw from memory.

Start with Standing animation, wait state(after a while or something random after standing for a while), running, jumpping, falling, climbing then taking damage, and finally dying. (I have my concerns about this... can you make him die 'nicely' within a 48x64 frame?).

Either way... I like it do it up! ;)

Robert Kosek
03-10-2005, 09:25 PM
can you make him die 'nicely' within a 48x64 frame?Electrical overload and explode? That'd look pretty cool... :)

Lookin' really good!

WILL
03-10-2005, 09:38 PM
Exploding would be perhaps impressive, but I'm not sure if it'll be practical. Then again, how will the robot be powered?

I think an explosion would only be practical if the power core he uses is of some kind of really unstable material.

Mind you nowadays we can power our watches and calculators for years without the need to change a battery. Cell phones now for days instead of hours. Laptop batteries and the like can only go on for a few hours, but how knows in a couple hundreds of years?

I'm going to assume that it can be done in the future and that he will not explode. Instead short circuiting and falling down will be the prefered method of robo-death! ;)

I realize I just complicated the animaiton process there, but it's worth it...


Which does bring a new idea for an upgrade. His power core. A mission could be to get an updated power core because yours is about to run out...? Or your on your backup with only hours left till you loose power and die. It could be a timed mission too! :)

cairnswm
04-10-2005, 05:09 AM
Reiner Prokien also uses bitmaps for his images. His sprites typically use a 96x96 frame, but sometimes his bying animations need more space and he then uses a 128x128 frame.

The size of the frame should not matter very much as programatically you can check for collisions on a smaller area of the frame.

K4Z
04-10-2005, 05:48 AM
...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/TestRun.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/TestRun1.gif

Without the muscles he doesn't look that bad. Lol, Sly is right, with the muscels he does look like a dude in a suit. But hopefully no one will really notice too much while they're running a jumping through the actual game.

Either way, WILL has the final say, but I think the muscles should be a seperate visual upgrade (Mabye really early in the game :wink: ).

I've got some ideas on how to create a nice dying animation within the frame, however, a larger frame would be much nicer :) . And I don't think a larger frame would have any effect on performance, esp. using OpenGL.

WILL
04-10-2005, 09:36 AM
Geez... I should be in bed. :?

But anyhow... The muscles will stay. This thing has to look partly human either way. It's the whole point of it's invetion, to be intelligent, be more... human-like. Besides, there are features that really do make him look robotic. Besides his hands detach! Thats a pretty mechanical feature, no? :)

And who says that we won't be having cutscenes and story interludes? (I can hear KAZ hitting the floor as he is fainting :lol:) Upgrading animations, etc will show him very much as a robot.

So you think you can have a basic set of at least standing, running, jumpping and falling before tomorrow night? It'll allow me to have something to use while I'm at sea to perfect my engine. (The actual configuration of the robot would be handy too, remove the ears, jet boosters and hands)

Also... for dying. I was thinking, what if I doubled the width of the frame? So I can keep it all in the same virtual screen.You'd have your other frames, then your dying animation that was simply double the width to be drawn.

So then Standard 48x64 and 96x64 for death frames. It'd only be a simple matter of changing the value of the TGameObject.Draw's SrcRect variable I use to draw the character's frame.


If you can pull it off, awesome. If not, thats fine. I'll find a way to compensate otherwise. But it seems we are sticking with the rendered look? I kinda like that idea. ;) And since you are modeling first and would have to pixel second, it would save an annoying step.

Well tomorrow is my last kick at the can before I leave for my trip. See you then. :)

OH! One last small note. I realized the other day when I took one of your renderings of the robot and used it in the engine that I had to use a Y offset for the sprite so that the 'overlapping feet' could be lined up properly. Can you ensure that they are also lined up for each frame as if they will be drawn with the same YOffset AND consider that the very center of the frame will be the center of the game object (so the left half and the right half from the center of the frame's image will be equal in size for collision). It's all based off the middle of the frame. The X,Y of the character is located at the bottom center of the robot's feet. I hope that makes sense...

K4Z
04-10-2005, 10:33 AM
*Picks myself up off the floor*

Well actually, I already had the idea of cutscenes. I've been thinking a bit about the opening scene, with the robot awakening in a swampy area, or however to story starts.

Heh heh, I'll do my best to get a simple sprite sheet done in time, but no promises :P .

The renderings before were just a test, so I'll make sure the robot is center and the feet line up.

Well, happy coding! :wink:

WILL
05-10-2005, 01:29 AM
I will cross my fingers for you. ;)

Sly
11-10-2005, 12:08 PM
K4Z, have you done any more on the little robot fella? It has been very cool to see his development.

K4Z
12-10-2005, 01:18 AM
I haven't had much free time to get any work done on the robot :cry: .

Though, I did manage to get a simple sprite sheet to WILL just before he left :lol: , of a standing and running animation. I Ran out of time to finish a jumping animation.
I had restarted the run animation from scratch, more fluent and aligned:
(He's stripped of his upgrades as how he will look at the start of the game)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/TestRun3.gif

---

I've also started a small scene of the robot waking up in a small cave/swampy area, that might be used in the opening cutscene. But...I'm keeping it all under raps at the moment :o .

Sly
12-10-2005, 03:35 AM
That run does look better. Smoother.

Waiting to see the opening cutscene. :)

WILL
17-11-2005, 07:16 AM
Well good new, I've got the basics of the game engine setup... So I can demo the sprite animations in the game engine now. ;)

I've also managed to add proper scrolling, teleporters, ladders, platform tiles and hopefully soon weapons firing... for both directional and normal shooting.

Next will be dying, explosions, weapons animations. Then scripted objects such as upgrades, power-ups, generic enemies and other things.

Ah the fun of designing a game engine. :) It's been so long...

Oh btw, it's all being developed under Lazarus. ;) And everything is cross-platform compatable.

K4Z
17-11-2005, 07:43 AM
Oh it's WILL!

*Sits up straight, Closes solitaire, Hides the magazines under the desk*
'Morning Sir, I've been working hard all day.' :D


Cool, looks like you've done a lot to the engine. Can't wait for a demo.

Traveler
17-11-2005, 07:57 AM
Making a silent comeback, eh :)

Welcome back WILL :D

savage
17-11-2005, 02:41 PM
A very silent comeback.

technomage
17-11-2005, 06:31 PM
who's this WILL guy :wink:

welcome back WILL :D

WILL
18-11-2005, 02:46 AM
I'm not so elusive am I? :)

So K4Z hows the sprites coming along? Send me a PM for the cut-scene/tilesets. I am dying to see what you have been thinking up.

Also a revised version of the player's frames would be handy. ;) I wanna see him jump and fall too!

The only other ones remaining would be the taking damage, climbing (1 for ladders, 1 for rope/chains) and shooting his main weapon.

Other weapon animations will be needed later, but thats for later functionality of the engine.

K4Z
19-11-2005, 06:41 AM
Ok, I PM'd you a sprite sheet with a jump animation.
It will probably need a lot of tweaking, I'd have to see how it looks in the game. It could do with a few more frames too, I guess it depends on how long the player spends in the air :P .

---

I haven't had any time to work on much over the last few weeks. But I do have a small handful of model ideas. I'll go through what I've done and see if there's anything worth posting at this moment.

Heh heh, I didn't get nearly enough finished of what I wanted to get done while you were away, but I'm still enthusiastic about the project :wink: :wink: .

Looking forward to the demo :) .

WILL
04-12-2005, 11:45 PM
Hey K4Z, I've managed to get a decent climb animation routeen in the engine. System was running like crap when I polished it off so I can't tell if the timing is good or not. :think:

How are the tilesets coming? :) I would love to see this guy running around in a proper 3D pre-rendered enviroment.

I was thinking about the tile layers...

There would be a scrolling/panaoramic/animation layer(BG Layer) then on top of that the layer that the player interacts with(platform tiles, object tiles, ladder and rope tiles and damaging and kill tiles too)(OBJ Layer) then on top of that a foreground layer for cosmetic effect (secret walls, pillars, waterfalls, grass, trees, etc)(FG Layer).

Make-up of the game display:

BG Layer - would be filled by default with a full screen, panoramic or a simple animation routeen.

* Particle Effects - like stars, rain, a sand storm, sonic speed, etc. will be drawn onto the BG Layer to add life to the backgrounds.

OBJ Layer - will be an array of tiles to be drawn on top of the BG Layer and will also contain map data for game object interaction.

* Game Objects - will all be drawn onto the OBJ Layer!
* Special Effects - will be drawn on OBJ Layer next!

FG Layer - will simply be an array of tiles tobe drawn on top of the OBJ layer and game objects with NO map data.

* Game Meters and Labels - will be drawn onto of the completed FG Layer and below.

Menus - I'd like to have glass screen/holographic looking menus in the game to add the the futureistic effect. These would be drawn on top of everything should there be any in-game Pause Menus.


Perhaps that'll give you some ideas to play with. OBJ and FG layers will have transparent sprites where as the BG Layer will not. And some of the special effects may make use of low-end 3D hardware accelerated or software rendered routeens.

K4Z
17-12-2005, 10:17 AM
< PM'd >

Those ideas sound good, looks like you've covered most things.

I do have an Interface idea, I'll post some shots soon.


Can you post an updated version?, so I can see how the climb animation worked out.

Also, have you done much work on the map editor? It will be easier to make tiles once I have something to work with :) .

Laterz.

K4Z
26-12-2005, 11:09 AM
Here's the beginings of an interface idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Interface1thumb.png (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Interface1.png)
(Heavy WIP)

Yes, No? :)

WILL
26-12-2005, 12:14 PM
What the-??? ... I... err... umm... :cry: It's so beautiful....

:drool:

... I could not have asked for better. :D

It's friggin' awesome man! I was just thinking of something almost exactly to that effect. I like the halogram/neon/electro feel you are using... In fact... I'm sold in the concept for the menu. Nice work! ;)

Can it be animated??? :think:

Oh and I think I MAY, and I must put the emphasis on may have a running title for it already. And I'm terrible at naming things sometimes, btw. Cyber-Crisis.

I don't know if it's already used, but it best matches the game's story and theme I think.

A world-wide civilization on the verge of destruction by an army of robots and the only thing that can save them from this crisis is the original robot made while developing the technology that was stolen to create it all. But he is severly out numbered and out dated. Or is he...? ;)


Wow, once the PGD competition is over I think I should get that level editor together so we can start designing maps. I pretty much know the rest of the proccess from there. All in all, I think with the awesome story, graphics and yet to be heard music, we'll have a winner here. ...I'm hoping! ;)

Robert Kosek
26-12-2005, 03:10 PM
Menu idea is really cool, but the holographic emitters need to look more like projectors than cable sockets. The currect methods to make a 3D hologram require 3 projectors at 120AŹ? angles for correct display. Unless of course, it's just a flat holographic plate... Bah, whatever looks good. :)

Just a little nitpick, sorry.


And it's H-o-l-o-g-r-a-m, not HALOgram, you silly Canadian you. HALOgram??? *bashes head on wall*

*spelling freak, away!*

Oh, and I found "Space Ninja Cyber Crisis (http://www.lategaming.com/crucibledesign/games/sncc/)" but it certainly seems to be nothing threatening. No longer for sale, and it looks like a failed indie project to me.


Um, Will? Why does that sound SooOOo much like Megaman to me? :roll:

WILL
26-12-2005, 07:21 PM
About mega-man similarity: Hmm... save the actual army part and make it only a handful of super powerful robots instead, and that these 8 robots can apparently take out the equivelent of a human armada, hmm... well maybe it's close then. :P

It's close in some respects, but not quite there. For instance, the idea of a madman trying to take over the world is similar, yes. Megaman as the original robot, no in fact his older brother Protoman was in fact the original. But the brother theme that you will be presented with later on in the game is not very similar. He will be evil, you are not and in this you fight to the other's destruction.

Our robot dreams, Megaman doesn't (and if he ever does I'll sue CapCom for franchise infringement, :lol: j/k). Its that one thing that makes him different. He has hidden desires to become something better than he is. And maybe he even has a 'conciousness', a scientific feat that all scientsits in the field of robotics have been trying to do for year and years (and this will be further in the future from now so much longer than we here in reality have been trying).

The idea behind the main 'villan' of the game is that he has been seeking power for years and upon hearing about the robot and how his creator had possibly made the worlds first sentient robot, he started after him to obtain the technology to produce such robots into an army to replace his own sometimes dis-loyal human force.

-- oh look, now. You got me on a rant. :P :lol: --

Ok, well last thing I'll also pick out about similarities is the gameplay, you will get upgrades, yes, but unlike megaman you not only upgrade what weapon you have, but you'll get constant things to improve your jumpping capabilities, armour, night vision, hands! ;), some cosmetic changes, sometimes just data discs that contain valuable information. And beyond that, the weapons you use are going to be way cooler! :P


Now back to the art:
As for the HOLOgram effect, I like it. :P Everything right down to the coloUr. The projectors could stand to look a bit grubbier, morelike they are old or something. Mostly for the 'old-world meets new', type mechanical effect. In the background, it might be neat/fun to have something like that big orangy looking worker bot doing some work in the background. I like to think of this character I want to put in the game as a sort of mechanic/workshop handy-err ...bot.

You'll run into him maybe a few times in the industrial part of the city, or possibly in a junkyard cleaning up old parts. Maybe he'll be the one that helps you with some of your more complicated upgrades and to recharge/fix yourself when you are broken or running low on juice? You do have an old battery after all. ;) (Megaman never had to worry about his battery now did he? :P :lol:)

Anyhow, yes, like I said maybe we can have the background as the character's workshop or something... Hmm... what to call him though... perhaps, G.U.S. He's the last working G.U.S. bot from a time when they were used to help the lack of man-power in the Electrical Mechanical workers union called 'General Union Service' or something like that. Gus, just sounds like a grease monkey's name, dunno why. ;)

<center>awaken/images/ROBOT_MILENARY.jpg (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/awaken/images/ROBOT_MILENARY.jpg)
Concept for G.U.S., the mechanic bot!</center>

K4Z
27-12-2005, 04:22 PM
The currect methods to make a 3D hologram require 3 projectors at 120AŹ? angles for correct display.

Heh heh, I knew someone was going to be all technical :fuzzy: . I tried multiple projectors, but there's really not enough space to put 3 projectors for every Hologram, and I still have more options to put in too.

I'm working on making it more grubby looking, kinda all shiny and polished, but with wires and electronics hanging out (...if you noticed the wires hanging in the background).

---

I like the idea of a repair bot/worker droid/etc. In fact, I started modeling a concept already :thumbup: :
(Sorry for the no colour, and plz ignore the legs :P )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_A1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Face1.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_B1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Side1.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Front1.png
I just had to give him a hat :P.
Let me know...

(Lol, Gus :mrgreen:)

Traveler
27-12-2005, 05:31 PM
K4Z, I think you are doing a great job!

But, to be honest, I'd like to see this all in action! When can we expect a sample of the game??

K4Z
28-12-2005, 12:20 AM
Well, nothing in this this thread is concrete until WILL's completely happy with it, so somethings won't make it into the game.
The project has been plagued with a lot of distractions so far, and sample releases will most likely be slowed even further with the upcomming PGD comp :? .

But I'm still very positive this game will be completed and a success, just need to have a little patience :thumbup:.

WILL
29-12-2005, 09:27 AM
Neat concept K4Z! :D

Ok, the ugly first(no not the legs :twisted:), those little arms thingies in his chest/utility belt?, that you probably worked on for about an hour or so, nuke em! :lol: Sorry, man thats too feature packed. Remember these G.U.S. things wrre discontinued, don't make him too handy. I think just the big clumbsy arms and hands are good enough without too much of a challenge. The idea of him using hand help tools, as bulky or unhumanly capable of holding is great. Really adds to the what the heck, factor. This guy has to be a bit 'funny', NOT HAHA FUNNY, just oh... well thats amusing, funny. :)

Maybe a cutting torch in his finger or something too, who knows... just don't make him look like he has it all in one, or what is he doing in the scrap pile fixing 'junk'?!?

Oh and he has to look a bit dirty and rusty, at the very least like he's been around awhile and has had somee heavy usage. He is afterall living in a scrap/junk parts yard.

Oh and try light, light(almost white) blue colored eyes. This guy does not come from the same 'robo-gene pool' as our hero. ;) This IS years later and robots still continued and evolved without the good Doctor's works. So smarter robots, no REAL cyber sentience or robo-soul. :) If that makes much sense at all. ;)

Basically make them look like a whole different design origins than the Doctor's work.

Oh and if I didn't confuse you yet about this guy, can you try to make him look like he has a hat, but without it being an actual hat? ie. use some design trick to give the shape or apearance of the hat-like feature into the head, but only slightly?

I'm not sure the hat fits, but I'm willing to try a compromize to test it's effect into this guy's design.

savage
29-12-2005, 11:11 AM
The currect methods to make a 3D hologram require 3 projectors at 120AŹ? angles for correct display.

Yes but this game is set in the future, so conceivably they would have improved the technology so that you only need 2 or even 1 projector and maybe event started using sockets ;-)


Oh and I think I MAY, and I must put the emphasis on may have a running title for it already. And I'm terrible at naming things sometimes, btw. Cyber-Crisis.

I'm not overly keen to see Cyber in the title, as loads of games have Cyber this, Cyber that. Has the story changed since the last time I visited the thread? Can you post a small recap for the slow ones like me.

K4Z
30-12-2005, 01:01 AM
Update: Just ignore all colour for now, still toying with ideas :).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_A2.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_C2.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_B2.png

Heh, the little arms on his belly were actually the main focus of the design. And they are used in conjunction with easily grabbing things from little containers in his belly :).

(The current look of them are just place holders till I model better looking ones, so if you didn't like them because of the look, they will be changed)

You first mentioned the robot as doing work in the background the on holographic interface, then as working in a junkyard, so from a design point that's some pretty varied work, hence big ol arms for holding heavy things while the little arms get into the little parts.
I took it as he was an all in one, still in good use robot; not only working on junk, but big clumbsy hands wouldn't work very well when working on complicated new technology like the main character. :mrgreen:

Maybe I could remove the little arms, and some other things, and make and older mark 1 model, one that would be used in a junk yard.

---
I understand what you said about the hat, and it's kind of already like that. The hat is actually his head, it's not a seperate piece. I did have it more subtle looking but a friend was making fun of how it looked. :joker:
---

The main idea behind his design, was to take a stereotypical overwieght gas station mechanic, and use his appearance as an asset. His overall design was to be kept humanoid as this particular model was built for a variety of jobs, including interacting with people. (If I ever do a junk yard cutscene, which would be pretty cool, I'll make all sorts of abstract looking worker droids more suited to junk yard work :) )


---
I don't really like the word 'cyber' in the title either. To me, 'cyber' is a niche word that computer illiterate people use when they're talking about stuff they don't understand :shhh:. But it's good for a running title for now.

Yes, a quick recap would be a good idea. I'm sure I've forgotten more of the important stuff. (Heh, and with nearly every post WILL does he leaks a little bit of information that he's never mentioned before :scratch: )

:P

WILL
30-12-2005, 09:35 AM
Well as K4Z said, it is only a running title for now. (I'm not sold on it, just needed to call it something other than the platform game or the robot game. :?) If you guys can think of a better or more appropreate one, toss me some suggestions, but I don't plan on setting any names in stone for some time...

As for Mr. GUS. :) I did it again. :lol: I managed to pick the one thing that you focused the most on, or based the whole or most of the concept behind. How do I do that? :P

Ok, if you want to continue with the idea of the small arms, see what you can come up with. I guess extra variety of ideas cannot hurt at this point.

BTW, I love the color of his eyes now. It's better than what I suggested before! ;)

You know a work-around for the little arms could be? He knows how to operate other machinery and digital devices that do the fine work for him. Thats why he's obsolete, he knows how to fix stuff, but just cannot do it himself. (Read: Same as a human doing the work himself.) He was afterall only an early model. But this is further going back and forth with the small hands.

How is this for a wild idea? You split him into 2 different robots! :) G.U.S. is the big guy and you have a little one that whips around and is like his assistant or 2nd hands. I think it might be ammusing to see him rambling on and just keep givin'er while his poor silent assistant is trying desperately to pick up the slak that GUS seems to be missing. :lol:

We could use GUS as part comic relief in the game this way. The half absent minded mechanic bot that knows how to fix stuff, but he's such a kluts that all his assistant(s) are/is the one(s) that *really* do the work. :D

Maybe make him have no real tools on his body, just a big guy with big... everything. :) Big tools with big and small machines to do everyhting for him. Little assistants buzzing around in addition to his tool carrying helper.

Just a fun idea I had just now. Since we had two ideas for our rather large worker friend.

:idea: (Picture a scene with him going on about how important it is that he puts something back together or it'll blow your rm off or something, he turns around and keeps going on about it, letting go of the very thing he's talking about and the little bots start freaking out around him. The hero just bows his head in disbeleif as the little workers fix his work for him. He turns back around to a 'fixed' version be his counter-parts as if he didn't do a thing wrong.) :idea:

As for the hat, maybe try softening the top edges of the hat... and also a version without to see what will look best overall.

Hmm... the feet (I know, ignore whats there now) they should be a lunky as the arms and body are compaired. Big 'ole clod hoppers. :) Or... just keep thinkin' fat mechanic named... 'GUS' :lol:

savage
30-12-2005, 01:00 PM
And when do we get that recap again?

WILL
30-12-2005, 08:48 PM
I'm not overly keen to see Cyber in the title, as loads of games have Cyber this, Cyber that. Has the story changed since the last time I visited the thread? Can you post a small recap for the slow ones like me.

Click here for brief recap! (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?p=18040#18040)

K4Z
05-01-2006, 12:36 AM
Thanx for the recap, really helped to clear some things up :P.

---

I did some work on the small arms, just to give you some idea of what they really look like.
(I'll do work on legs soon :P)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_A3.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_T3.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_TB3.png
(I've started setting up some IK rigging on the arms, and with the hydraulics and everything moving, it does look pretty cool :D, and will allow for some pretty interesting animation)

The look of the small arms will help with the overall look. As in, the combination of New smooth and shiny, with old mechanical, wires hanging out, look. (Which is the look I'm trying to achieve with the entire game)

---

I would like to keep the small arms for now (At least until you see the final product, if I still haven't convinced you by then, I'll chop 'em off :P).
But I do love the idea of him as a bit of a bumbling fool, who actually brakes more things than he fixes, while it's really his assistant droids that do any realy work. :P :P :P

---

I'll post an update to the Interface idea soon, still toying with ideas.

WILL
05-01-2006, 01:00 AM
Well the arms are looking a lot better. Hmm... well we could try another idea. How about the arms are an attachment instead of being controlled by GUS?

So not only do the little helpers try to fix all his mistakes, but so does the poor arms attachment attached to him. It tries helplessly to fix things independant of him completely even though it's attached to him still.

Maybe he'll walk away from the table and the little arms will be struggling like a person to reach and grab for the table to stop it from falling and when it crashes to the floor, it drops the arms as if it just gave up...

You should give it little fingers too. To give it some personality as a seperate independant character from GUS.

Oh and one more thing, the outter shell on this guy is gotta have a bit of rust on it. Nothing looking like it's new. Like parts that were nice and clean, but over the years growing rust on it...

Traveler
05-01-2006, 08:00 AM
K4Z, its looking pretty cool indeed. Perhaps you can add some metallic/rusty look quickly by using the (procedural) metalpresets under the F8 key. There's always time to add textures later, but it'll give WILL a better idea of how it'll look in the end.

WILL
05-01-2006, 10:38 PM
EDIT: Posted in a wrong thread, but I moved it here where it belongs now...

You know the style of old technology I think of when I think of these non-'hero robot'-based robots? Ever see Judge Dredd the movie(The one with Stallone)? You know that big mechanical war machine? Thats what I think of... not the shapes of the bodyparts or any of that so much as the texture of the metal used and the panneling on the body parts. Like you can see the small bolts and screws holding the plat in place. Not huge protruding bolts like you see on the PGD header though, more subtile and even sunken ones actaully. If even that... just the paneled effect.

One thing about the latest revisions of GUS I'm not partial to is the fancy doily designed art on him... The original panel look was better. It got too flowery and 'pretty'. Leve the general shap of him, it's good and the jaw and head is great, but just try to square off the edges of the body's paneling.

K4Z
06-01-2006, 04:56 AM
Yes, I like the idea of the arms acting as somewhat seperate from the main body.


Maybe he'll walk away from the table and the little arms will be struggling like a person to reach and grab for the table to stop it from falling and when it crashes to the floor, it drops the arms as if it just gave up...
I love that idea, perfect for the comic relief :lol:, but it'll be up to my animation skill if I can pull it off with any success :?.

---

I actually used parts of the Judge Dredd Robot as a reference. I really like that style. What I am trying to accomplish with GUS, is a sort of more newer look than that. Still made mostly out of chunks of metal (instead of composite plastics like the Main Character), but everything is kind of smooth and bubbly looking instead of straight and flat. Like a transition between new and old, yet GUS's 'new' look, is on the way out and starting to get old.
(Hope I'm not being confusing, don't really know how to explain it, but hopefully it'll make more sense in a few more updates)

I'm still planing on putting bolts and rivets all over his shell, but that'll be one of the last things I do.

His panel design was a failed attempt to give more detail to his plain sphere of a body :P. I don't like it either, came out too rounded and smooth. I'll try something else.

---

As for his color/surface, it's still a bit early to be worrying too much about it :P. But to put everyones minds at rest (for now), I made some quick (and I mean quick :P) tests.

Heh-hem :). Here's a simple UV maping of his right arm. I just used a default brush in Photoshop to chip some paint away. No real diffuse or gloss map, so it looks too new (Yes, it looks horrible, but it's just a start)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex1.jpg

Next up is a procedural map. I just layered a bunch of textures over each other and it came out pretty good. The rust looks better, the paint is more how it should look, nice and flat, and a bit faded.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex2.jpg

I expanded on the procedural mappings and added some more layers. I tried to give an undercoating, and it's becomming visible as the top coat is chipping off. Also tried adding scratches as a bump map.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex3.jpg

Just some tests, nothing is set in stone yet :P.

savage
06-01-2006, 05:42 AM
Hey K4Z, did you get my PM?

K4Z
06-01-2006, 05:49 AM
Hey K4Z, did you get my PM?
I did now :P. (Don't always notice new messages from cos of my popup blocker)

WILL asked me about it a few days ago :), and I'm up for it. I'll finish writing it up tonight and submit to one of you two. Should I email or pm it?

WILL
06-01-2006, 06:09 AM
Small footnote; I had this whole long thing typed up and halfway through it my peice of crap laptop died on me becasue of a brownout. :?


Yes, I like the idea of the arms acting as somewhat seperate from the main body.


Maybe he'll walk away from the table and the little arms will be struggling like a person to reach and grab for the table to stop it from falling and when it crashes to the floor, it drops the arms as if it just gave up...
I love that idea, perfect for the comic relief :lol:, but it'll be up to my animation skill if I can pull it off with any success :?.

I suggest taking a page from Disney and Pixar and try acting out the arms reactions with your own hands. The trick is to give all the emotion and personality of an individual person into these arms, with just what features they have, hand gestrures. But try not to get too carried away or corny otherwise you'll lose the viewers and get a 'disconnect' from the character. (Sometimes I think if I wasn't a programmer, I'd have end up being a director. ;))


I actually used parts of the Judge Dredd Robot as a reference. I really like that style. What I am trying to accomplish with GUS, is a sort of more newer look than that. Still made mostly out of chunks of metal (instead of composite plastics like the Main Character), but everything is kind of smooth and bubbly looking instead of straight and flat. Like a transition between new and old, yet GUS's 'new' look, is on the way out and starting to get old.
(Hope I'm not being confusing, don't really know how to explain it, but hopefully it'll make more sense in a few more updates)

I'm still planing on putting bolts and rivets all over his shell, but that'll be one of the last things I do.

His panel design was a failed attempt to give more detail to his plain sphere of a body :P. I don't like it either, came out too rounded and smooth. I'll try something else.

So instead you made it more rounded? Interesting technique. ;) j/k

I think instead of giving up on the panels, you should have kept them simple in shape squared off the corners and made them more 'tank-like'. You know that painted metal armour alloy look. But with the stealy hydrolic joints and cables underneath the shell. The shape of the guy is good, but the pattern on his now is too... fancy pantsy... he is an old robot... and considering his line of work, shouldn't have any fancy or new-age patterns on him. :? It goes to throw him out of reality that he's in.


As for his color/surface, it's still a bit early to be worrying too much about it :P. But to put everyones minds at rest (for now), I made some quick (and I mean quick :P) tests.

Heh-hem :). Here's a simple UV maping of his right arm. I just used a default brush in Photoshop to chip some paint away. No real diffuse or gloss map, so it looks too new (Yes, it looks horrible, but it's just a start)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex1.jpg

Next up is a procedural map. I just layered a bunch of textures over each other and it came out pretty good. The rust looks better, the paint is more how it should look, nice and flat, and a bit faded.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex2.jpg

I expanded on the procedural mappings and added some more layers. I tried to give an undercoating, and it's becomming visible as the top coat is chipping off. Also tried adding scratches as a bump map.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex3.jpg

Just some tests, nothing is set in stone yet :P.

I like these examples! :) It's a good aged effect, just don't over-do the rust. Make it look like a distinct feature rather than a common texture everywhere.


Otherwise I like his direction. It'd be great if each character in the game got this kind of attention. ;)

K4Z
07-01-2006, 02:28 PM
Here's another example, closer to look I'm going for.
Minimalistic paneling with a bump map.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/GUS_Tex5.jpg


It'd be great if each character in the game got this kind of attention.
LOL, I didn't expect 'ol Gus here to get this much attention :P.

savage
07-01-2006, 07:33 PM
:drool: NICE detailing!

WILL
07-01-2006, 07:43 PM
Thats a nice effect. :) Now, you know if you're gonna have rust like that you gotta then make the rust react to the gaps in the panelling you know. ;)

Don't make him all covered in rust. Just have him so that he's starting to rust in the odd place here and there...

But it's good I like the effect it gives off. :) Just make it in small patches or on lightly on sparse random areas...

K4Z
07-01-2006, 11:15 PM
Being a procedural texture, I really don't have much control on where the rust appears. So I probably won't be able to super detail and add rust comming from the gaps, and well worn areas. :think:

Ofcourse, he's not going be as rusted as these examples, they are just emphasized to show the idea.

If everyone's happy with the surface now :mrgreen:, I'll get back to modeling :P.

WILL
08-01-2006, 06:19 AM
:lol: Quite, right... *ahem* onward old chum... :salute: onward! ;)

Looks good K4Z giver hell. :)

BTW, anything on that tiling attempt?

K4Z
15-01-2006, 02:45 AM
BTW, anything on that tiling attempt?
Short answer: No, not really :shhh:.

Sorry, I have slackened off, other projects and assignments have caught up with me once again :(

Not much new for GUS, but here's a mini update to the Interface, trying out an idea.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Interface2thumb.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/donuts/Interface2.jpg)

Has this thread been moved (again)? :scratch:

WILL
21-01-2006, 05:20 PM
Has this thread been moved (again)? :scratch:

I don't recall this thread ever moving. :?


An issue with continuity:

Something I think I should mention, because I think I seemed to have missed it, but it's vital to make it happen in all things visual in this game.

The hero robot and his 'brother' are unique! The white shell casing style and design are exclusive to them alone. Why is their design so exclusive? Well there was only 2 and it was a 'secret' project. The doctor was only able to publish a few papers and reports on his progress before he had to go into hidding. And the only two models, that remain unreleased to the public, were either lost in a cave in a tropical swamp or stollen by the evil commander in an attack.

So really you can't use the same shell design anywhere else in the game, except for maybe the designs of some of the bosses of the robot army. And of course the hero, and his brother and all the cool upgrades our hero finds.


Also, as far as the current world technology. The world just faced a HUGE 40 year war... in the streets of cities, all over. The world isn't a very cheery place, esp. since they took almost all the 40 years to recover to where it is now AND the threat is still out there. :shock: So there is a constant gloom still about in the less rich places in the world. In the big cities, you know how you have the poorer parts and then the very rich and core portions? Well only the core and the richer parts of the city (City Hall, Big Corporate areas, shopping centers) will looks all spiffy and clean, the rest shows it wear and tear of industrial steel and concreate living. So just keep that in mind as you design new areas of cities and machines and materials for the game in general. Exceptions of course are exotic locations, like the underwater bases, and hidden fortresses, etc. *hint hint* ;)

K4Z
21-01-2006, 10:55 PM
Heh Heh, yes I know :P.
The shiny white plate look is only going to be used for the main character and his 'brother', with slight hints of this style throughout any other of the Doctors works. If we ever see anything else made by the Doctor, it will be shiny and white so it's easily recognized .

The only other place this style is to be used is the interface. The interface should somehow match the main characters look a little bit, so everything blends nicely together.

---

Just to elaborate more on the styles. It depends on when an object was manufactured. Things that were made before the 40 year war will be smooth looking mostly made out of plastics. And those made during and after are going to be hard, straight, and made out of rusted metal.
So, my idea of GUS is that he was built a little while before the war, with a smooth bubbly look, but is now rusting from lack of maintenance.
While with the main character, the Doctor would of had enough funds and recourses to keep on with the clean looking style.

Although slow, everything's under control, and has had some thought put into it :mrgreen:

---

I'll do a GUS update (as well as some other things) when I get home.

lol, I'm sure this thread started off in a category that got removed months ago, then it was in creative and then in Project Planning. I just noticed that it's now in 3d modeling and texturing. Doesn't matter, it's just funny :P :P

WILL
22-01-2006, 12:21 AM
Ok well all seems on par with my overall concept. :)


While with the main character, the Doctor would of had enough funds and recourses to keep on with the clean looking style.

GUS waould have been made several years after the doctor's work stopped. He is not only a completely different model and line of robot, but made by technology invented by completely different people from a different era. I guess you could think of the difference like two chains or lines of evolution. Kinda like mamals and reptiles have. ;)

Timeline sorta works like this:

- Doctor invents sentient robot technology. Real AI!
- He then writes a report stating his accomplishments publishing it publicly.
- The evil commander after taking notice then starts planning to steal the technology.
- The allied government's intelligence people warn the doctor about the threat to him and his work.
- He then scrambles to protect his work and stop this evil force from getting his prototypes.
- The convoy with the two prototypes is attacked and the doctor is killed. His assistant and some members assisting in the doctor's project manage to elude the attacking forces.
- in the next 3 years the doctor's assistant works with colligues to create a new robot to stop the evil robot army from being created. Some parts of the allied military join in on the fight. The allied government it's self ignores the threat as anything serious.
- When the assistant's plan is launched and the HQ of the robot army is discovered, it's too late, the new robot is destroyed and the assistant and his colligues were left defeated. The military friends the assistant made were wiped out and their base was oblitterated.
- in the following year the 30 years long robot wars start and the world is sent into chaos.
- Things die down near the end, where an uneasy ceace-fire and stand-still peace agreement is signed.
- 10 years without fighting is spent by the world picking up peices and licking wounds. Nothing has been heard of from the robot army, the world still recovering is scared and weary.
- Now it's the current day and our Robot hero, one of the two prototypes awakens from his long 'sleep'.

I guess you can refer to this whenever to need a chronology to fall back to for consistancy.


Oh, and I forgot to mention how cool the interface looks. :)

Someone suggested switching the 'Exit' and 'Play' places as it might work better the other way around being as the whole left to right hand-eye co-ordination thing. It's more common the other way around.

K4Z
22-01-2006, 01:58 AM
Yes, the story is all falling into place, thanx! :D :D. (I goto remember to save that somewhere :!: )


My idea of GUS was a common place driod used just about everywhere, for lots of different jobs, before the war. Interacting with people, he'd need to humanoid and friendly looking enough, with an over all style that fited with the times. (Today, even though there are a lot of car manufactures, all cars today pretty much look the same :P. It's just the growing style of our time)
But with the war, (40 years is a long time, but with a war devestating the world, there's not much time for change) GUS units are (although becomming rare) still around and being put to use. With an unstable world, there really hasn't been a mass produced driod to replace him.
But that was just my idea of him :mrgreen:.


Lmao, with all this talk about GUS, he's gonna need a major role in the game :P :P :P :P .


Someone suggested switching the 'Exit' and 'Play' places as it might work better the other way around being as the whole left to right hand-eye co-ordination thing. It's more common the other way around.
Sure thing.

---

See you in a few days, I'm outta here for now.

WILL
22-01-2006, 05:00 PM
Well GUS IS the last one... functioning and still running that is. The fact that he is working away, tinkering on the garbage left at the junkyard, is simply left to neglect and abandonment. What does a program do if you leave it running with no job to do? It keeps going trying to continue doing his 'current' job.

GUS will have a symbolistic place in the game, both as a character that helps our hero to upgrade himself with current-day technology and to tell a part of the story of what happened after he went missing. How technology evolved in the world without any of the doctor's works and what path it went instead. Also it shows a darker side of what the Doctor's technology did to the rest of the worlds creations and the sheer power of it's effect on what happened when itwas taken into the wrong hands.

Deep, sad? Symbolic and scary? Yes... it's ment to be. ;)

There will be other characters with as much story detail given to them. GUS is just one of many characters that tell the story.

aidave
18-05-2006, 08:51 PM
Hi I just discovered this thread, looks interesting!!

ANy progress on the coding of this game?