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Eric
14-03-2006, 02:15 PM
Congrats to those who made it so far in the PGD Challenge!

To get the PGD feedback discussions started, I'm going to post a few general hints, so teams can avoid those easily solved glitches in later stages, when there will be the most points to rack in :wink:
For more specific feedback issues, don't hesitate to start a new thread.

Have pity for our eyes!

When you go full-screen, make sure to automatically use one of the higher screen refresh rates the hardware supports, or at least allow the refresh rate to be specified manually somewhere (autodetection is best, but a config file would be fine). 60Hz is only good enough for slow LCD panels, but aim for 75Hz or more for CRTs and high-end LCDs.
Full-screen 60Hz refresh on a 19" CRT is painful, and my high-end machine is using a 19" CRT :twisted:

Not all keyboards are QWERTY...

Most critical for those games that use the standard 'WASD' setup... on an AZERTY keyboard, it becomes 'ZQSD'.
Usually you can support both keyboards at the same time, without need of a keyboard configuration editor or configuration file: just react the same way to Z as you would to W, and to Q as you would to A.


// replace
if W_is_pressed then...
// with
if W_is_pressed or Z_is_pressed then...

Installers / Uninstallers

If you use an installer/uninstaller, do not forget the "uninstall" shortcut in the menu group (hunting for the entry in windows' add/remove dialog isn't very convenient). Also, try to make sure everything gets cleaned up at uninstallation, inluding temporary files, settings files and log files.

AthenaOfDelphi
14-03-2006, 03:30 PM
Hi Eric,

Thanks for these opening pointers.

Just a bit about the keyboard though... in one of the later stages, we have to provide options and such... we plan on implementing that aspect of the configuration then. Can we be sure that we won't be penalised for the keyboard issue until at least that point in the competition? I only ask because I'm really stretched time wise trying to hit Stage 4, but I do have keyboard configuration penciled in for stage 5 (IIRC).

Traveler
14-03-2006, 03:43 PM
Very good points! If you (or others) have more they'd be highly appreciated.

Eric
14-03-2006, 06:06 PM
> Can we be sure that we won't be penalised for the keyboard issue until
>at least that point in the competition?

As long as goals don't involve some form of "gameplay enjoyment", keyboard isn't going to be a scoring issue, but beyond that, WASD key locations on azerty are just located weirdly enough to make controls hardly usable... I wouldn't make it a critical scoring flaw (willingly at least), but it might cause me to miss out on things, or struggle more than needs be... :?

If other controler(s) are supported (like a gamepad, or mouse, or joystick) and keyboard is just an option amongst many, that's less of an issue.

> I only ask because I'm really stretched time wise trying to hit Stage 4,
> but I do have keyboard configuration penciled in for stage 5 (IIRC).

The issue is only really there for keys that must be in a particular configuration (like WASD), and in that case, the simple code mod suggested can take care of it.
For other keys, there is no real need for configuration (especially if you detect by virtual key codes rather than ascii characters).

jdarling
14-03-2006, 06:42 PM
Eric, I tested my Config app on Devorak and Qwerty, but didn't have an Azerty to play with. Can you tell me if it worked properly or not?

As far as an uninstaller goes, isn't this more of a preference? I personally HATE it when programs place the uninstall in the start menu group (I always end up clicking it by accident, darn fat fingers). May have installers ask if they should place it in start group would be best.

Also, and this is a big one for me, any chance that you and the other judges would post some comments on the results pages reporting back things like invalid frame rates etc... I know you all are judges, but all feedback is helpful.

aidave
14-03-2006, 09:16 PM
interesting tips
i created an AZERTY layout
but i never even heard of that before today.

ps. if its possible, please let us know if our games crash!

Eric
15-03-2006, 10:00 AM
Eric, I tested my Config app on Devorak and Qwerty, but didn't have an Azerty to play with. Can you tell me if it worked properly or not?

Could you point me to it? If it's in stage 3, I don't have the files yet.


As far as an uninstaller goes, isn't this more of a preference? I personally HATE it when programs place the uninstall in the start menu group (I always end up clicking it by accident, darn fat fingers). May have installers ask if they should place it in start group would be best.

Maybe, but I've got so many stuff in the add-remove Windows dialog that finding a particular application is a chore, and when it is (as often) classified under a different name than the startup group menu name, it usually is next to impossible to locate.
If there is an "uninst.exe" of some kind in the application's directory, I try it, if it doesn't work, I usually just end up deleting the application's directory without further ado.


Also, and this is a big one for me, any chance that you and the other judges would post some comments on the results pages reporting back things like invalid frame rates etc...

Could do... now all you've got left is to pressure WILL into adding the feature to the results page. :wink:


ps. if its possible, please let us know if our games crash!

Starting with stage 3, I guess we could start threads to report technical glitches. In stage 2, many teams already knew about issues and warned about them in the readmes.

Only one stage 2 entry IIRC outright crashed (on missing resources), and another's editor would very easily crash. Issues I remember in other entries were more of the missing/not working functionality kind (not surprising given how early it was in the challenge) rather than crashes or infinite loops.

cairnswm
15-03-2006, 01:48 PM
Should we each create a thread for our project for judges feedback?

jdarling
15-03-2006, 01:53 PM
Could you point me to it? If it's in stage 3, I don't have the files yet.
Yep its in stage 3, it was ready for stage 2 but I didn't want to include it at that point.


Could do... now all you've got left is to pressure WILL into adding the feature to the results page. :wink:
Hmm... Well, pressuring WILL into anything can be challenging, but hey maby he will follow it up if the footwork is there.


Starting with stage 3, I guess we could start threads to report technical glitches. In stage 2, many teams already knew about issues and warned about them in the readmes.
That would be excelent :)! I know instead of a readme I placed a splash in my stage 3 entry, stage 2 there was a file, but only a very basic one.

Hopefully mine wasn't a crasher, it never crashed on any of the hardware I tested it on and I have some old stuff to test on. Just nothing very new except my laptop :(.

Eric
15-03-2006, 02:52 PM
> Should we each create a thread for our project for judges feedback?

If it's just to ask if it works, it could be overkill, but if there are weird issues or complex things to be checked/tested, that might be more convenient.

Could also be an occasion to post screenshots/movies (for all to see), as some bugs may not be obvious when you don't know how things should have looked like, or what the player/boss should have been capable of.

michalis
27-03-2006, 11:07 PM
Hi Eric. About your notes for my (Michalis Kamburelis, "The Castle") stage 3 entry:



Couldn't find any enemy.


That's correct, as enemies were not implemented on stage 3 deadline. It was written in the README file :)



There is something about the FOV and/or movement speed that made me feel somewhat queasy after some wandering around in the stage 3 level (not so much in the castle level, but it was more open).



I'm not sure what do you mean by "queasy"... Can you explain it in more detail ? There was no "head bobbing" effect in stage 3 version (it's done in stage 4 version), does this fix / improve the issue ?

Thanks!

Eric
28-03-2006, 07:52 AM
That's correct, as enemies were not implemented on stage 3 deadline. It was written in the README file :)

oops, missed it because it didn't have the .txt extension ;)


I'm not sure what do you mean by "queasy"... Can you explain it in more detail ? There was no "head bobbing" effect in stage 3 version (it's done in stage 4 version), does this fix / improve the issue ?

I mean it made me kinda sick (well not that bad), I'm not sure head bobbing has anything to do with it, probably more something with the viewing angle (FOV). So far all FPS and 3d games I've encountered gave me no trouble sitting through multi-hours sessions, but there was one that had the same queasy-inducing effect: HalfLife 2 - you're in good company ;)
I could barely stand watching the HL2 screen in more than 5-10 minutes sessions, and actually abandonned the game by the time you reach the base after the canals (walking in the interiors became just too much).
I later found other many people had the same issue and that there were unofficial FOV patches circling the forums, though I never resumed playing the game with it (and don't have the game anymore).

michalis
11-04-2006, 03:31 AM
That's correct, as enemies were not implemented on stage 3 deadline. It was written in the README file :)

oops, missed it because it didn't have the .txt extension ;)


For stage 5 all the *.pas sources are inside source/ subdirectory, so files in the main dir (executables, README file) should be more visible.




I'm not sure what do you mean by "queasy"... Can you explain it in more detail ? There was no "head bobbing" effect in stage 3 version (it's done in stage 4 version), does this fix / improve the issue ?

I mean it made me kinda sick (well not that bad), I'm not sure head bobbing has anything to do with it, probably more something with the viewing angle (FOV).

I was reading various pages about HalfLife 2 FOV problems (like this (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Field_of_View) or this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2_controversies_and_criticisms)). It turns out that I was using much smaller field of view than other games. HalfLife uses 75 degree (vertical), Doom and many other games use 90. I was using 45 horizontal (that's only 35 vertical on 800x600 screen). I changed this to 70 horizontal (that's 55 vertical). This is still smaller than in other games, but larger values feel too awkward (probably I'm too accustomed to my previous angle ?).

Also, after some experiments, I think that moving speed was too large. I made it smaller (by about 3/4).

Hopefully these improve the feeling. If you will still experience any motion sickness, stage 5 submission has a menu in game "Debug options". Today I placed there controls to change view angle, rotation speeds and move speeds --- you can tweak them to suit your needs. (Note that they are not saved to config file). Please report if you find that other values of these settings feel better for you.