2006 PGD Annual: Stage 4 Feedback

[Eric]

Just entered all my scores for stage 4. Only one team (Stoned Code) got zero points as the archive didn't include a compiled binary, only the source files, and the source wouldn't compile because of missing dependencies...

Hopefully for the next stage, WILL will have implemented the ability to publish all scores at once (and not as they're entered), otherwise I'll try randomizing review order so first team to see the scores/comments won't be the same ones (for stage 3 and 4, I downloaded the archives, unzipped them all, and reviewed them in the directory order, which roughly matched the team numbers).

On a side note, as the challenge's end is approaching, be wary of not over-extending and focusing too much on technical aspects, polishing up levels, gameplay and difficulty, UI, graphics and sound will require time and a lot of tweaking... don't get caught with your pants down, however pretty and shiny the pants may be! 8)

[Traveler]

Big thanks!

Some of your comments on my entry were already mentioned in the manual, but I'll try to fix them for the comming stage.

[Eric]

Some of your comments on my entry were already mentioned in the manual

For the "miss their targets" comment, the important part of the comment is about what happens when a tower misses, as it highlight the issue with the fire control, rather than the "miss their targets" issue, which could eventually become a "feature" ;)
Current fire control prioritization ensures that when one enemy manages to get through, pretty much all subsequent enemies will go through, which ensures a game over. Being able to "ignore" one or two of the enemies in some fashion would mean being able to kill all the other enemies, and taking only one-two losses, ie. no game over. Sorry if that wasn't clear :)

[Traveler]

It was actually. But you do raise a valid point, which I had not thought of earlier. Right now towers choose the next in line if a current target gets out of range. But that may not always be the best choice if the maximum damage left, is less than the health of that target.

It seems I need to add a few more variables to the equation.
An interesting problem though :)

[WILL]

Nice work Eric! :)

Yes, I'm planning to add a publish_scores field to all deadline records or some such way to restrict scores until all scores are in. If one judge is done all his maybe just publish all of his alone then another judge's scores when he is done his and so on. I think competitors would be happy with that, no?

Until I incorporate that feature perhaps Eric you can do them in order of who submitted first? So that it's a little bit more fair to those that came first and got 'scored' first? Just an idea for now until I come up with the obviously, better solution which you guys suggested.

Hopefully Dean will be able to finish his scores soon. He tends to get them done in large batches so it'll all probably be completed one day seemingly just out of nowhere. :)

[aidave]

good reviews Eric, thanks

i notice the judges couldnt defeat our boss in Blocked ;)

thats too bad, because destroying him is the highlight !
there are cheat codes in the ? doc for how to spawn the boss, get full energy, instantly kill him, etc.
its not impossible, aim for his wheels first, shoot often, and jump backwards while dodging.

8)

cheers
dave

[Eric]

Yes, I'm planning to add a publish_scores field to all deadline records or some such way to restrict scores until all scores are in.

Should cover it! :)


Until I incorporate that feature perhaps Eric you can do them in order of who submitted first?

Could do. Having the "time" for the submission might help for that, and may not be very heavy to change (the date on the "p=judge_deadline" page only has the day, ie. many teams have the same date).

[michalis]

Hi Eric, first of all thanks for your feedback for stage 4! Some answers to issues you pointed for my entry ("The Castle"):



Level loading seems to be quite long

That's because loading creatures takes long (animations must be generated, along with display lists). I improved it after stage 4 deadline --- it's about 4x faster now. On the other hand, new creatures will be added before stage 5 deadline, so the whole process will probably get slower again :)

In any case, loading creatures happens only when loading the very first level, when loading further levels (or ending game and executing "New game" once again) creatures will not be loaded again, so this will not slow down the game between the levels.



Movement is blocked by dead aliens (which aren't visible when you're blocked on them, too low and flat on the floor), you can also get "stuck" when colliding against a wall, instead of sliding.

These are 2 known problems. Problem with being blocked by dead aliens should be fixed before stage 5, hopefully sliding along the wall will also be improved.



Default movement controls key setup is also quite uncommon

Hmm, they are much like normal Quake/Duke/Doom controls, before all the FPS games started to use mouse to control player rotations... Mouse is used for picking in my game (this will probably not be changed before PGD compo end --- too little time).

In any case, stage 5 submission will have a menu to configure all key shortcuts, so I guess this closes the issue :)



Finally, readme and text files are UNIX-style, which means notepad and common Windows text viewers won't display them correctly (okay for me, but be aware many end-users will be unable to view them correctly).


Good point, I changed line endings to DOS-style for README and TODO files. The rest of the text files is not intended to be read by end-users, so I guess it's not a problem.

[Huehnerschaender]

Fortunately I am one of the "teams" which got full response for stage 4, but I guess it is a little "sad" that there are so many competitors who didn't got the chance to improve their game in stage 5, depending on the judges "hints".

Stage 5 was a little easy for three weeks and I guess it was intended that everyone has some extra time to polish things and clear known bugs. But stage 5 is ending in 3 days and there are only 3 teams who got a full review yet.
Don't want to bother anyone, just commenting my thoughts. We are all working hard on our entrys and some contemporary feedback of the judges could have been a real help to take notice of existing problems, because I don't think everyone has his personal "beta testers" available.
Sure, the most things the judges mentioned I found out myself, but it's the judges we have to satisfy in the end, and if there is something they don't like we want to abolish it.

Please remember, I am satisfied with my "reviews". I am talking for all the others who are still waiting. I am confused that no one else already mentioned this.

[jdarling]

Fortunately I am one of the "teams" which got full response for stage 4, but I guess it is a little "sad" that there are so many competitors who didn't got the chance to improve their game in stage 5, depending on the judges "hints".

Stage 5 was a little easy for three weeks and I guess it was intended that everyone has some extra time to polish things and clear known bugs. But stage 5 is ending in 3 days and there are only 3 teams who got a full review yet.
Don't want to bother anyone, just commenting my thoughts. We are all working hard on our entrys and some contemporary feedback of the judges could have been a real help to take notice of existing problems, because I don't think everyone has his personal "beta testers" available.
Sure, the most things the judges mentioned I found out myself, but it's the judges we have to satisfy in the end, and if there is something they don't like we want to abolish it.

Please remember, I am satisfied with my "reviews". I am talking for all the others who are still waiting. I am confused that no one else already mentioned this.

The only review that I had problems with was the one about no objects to pickup. Had Dean taken the time to kill everything he would have found that the boss drops the items to be picked up. But, hey I take that as my own fault at trying to be clever, I should have placed a simple object on the ground and made it obvious :).

Baby update; The little tyke is still too small and the Dr's don't want my wife to give birth yet. Seems like we are going to the hospital every other day to get shots or other such things. So far I was right about no time to work on the entry. I have had enough time to work on my LUA scripting environment and might get it complete before the end of contest. If so I'll post it for all to use.

[aidave]

Fortunately I am one of the "teams" which got full response for stage 4, but I guess it is a little "sad" that there are so many competitors who didn't got the chance to improve their game in stage 5, depending on the judges "hints".

i agree, we also have full review, but for sake of fairness hints and advice should not be given to some games and not others. in particular the one game got advice immediately 3 weeks ago but some others (who might need the hints more) are still waiting. its not fair to have to fix a problem at the last minute vs fix the problem over weeks time.

this isnt a huge deal, but the negative thing is that it gives the impression that the would rather review their favorite entry instead of the other games because they like that one more , or have desire to play that type of game instead of other types.

judges must be impartial until the entries are complete!



Stage 5 was a little easy for three weeks

i dunno ;) we worked our butts off on this stage more than any other.

[Eric]

Hmm, they are much like normal Quake/Duke/Doom controls, before all the FPS games started to use mouse to control player rotations...

Well, even back then I would bind left/right to left/right strafing rather than left/right turning, so that's why it's an unusual setup to me :)


in particular the one game got advice immediately 3 weeks ago but some others

To detail that particular instance, it was a combination of factors: as I reviewed entries in "zip order" (ie. team registration order AFAIK), I reviewed 't1' first (Verne-X), which raised a question on goal completion so I mailed Savage, while waiting for the answer, I started reviewing the next team, 't7' (Blocked), but couldn't get to the boss in my first play session, so didn't write anything just yet, and as replaying to get there would have been too long for the time I had and I really wanted to have at least one entry done, I gave a try to the next one, 't18' (SCAG), which proved short enough to review completely in that session... and then various real-life events concurred to push back the next session for a while longer than I had anticipated... :?

I'll try to regroup entries more for the current stage, and will sort them by entry submission date this time (ie. Verne-X, TortureTank, Scag, Draconia+EUF, then all others)

[Huehnerschaender]

Eric, nobody wants to blame you for anything ^^

We all know that real life comes with some surprises when you really don't need them.

Isn't it possible to review all entrys and then enter the comments of all entrys at once? That would be the most fairness for all I guess. You could just write down your thoughts to a doc and then copy and paste them in one session to the entry comments.

We know that you cannot manage to play all entrys in one rush, but the comments should be visible for all at the same time.

Greetings,
Dirk

[Eric]

Isn't it possible to review all entrys and then enter the comments of all entrys at once?

Yep, might be the best alternative. Kinda negates the ability to keep track of things in just one place though, will find a place for that file on my USB key :)