Microsoft Invites the World to Create Console Games..

[savage]

In the 30 years of video game development, the art of making console games has been reserved for those with big projects, big budgets and the backing of big game labels. Now Microsoft Corp. is bringing this art to the masses with a revolutionary new set of tools, called XNA Game Studio Express, based on the XNA‚Ñ¢ platform. XNA Game Studio Express will democratize game development by delivering the necessary tools to hobbyists, students, indie developers and studios alike to help them bring their creative game ideas to life while nurturing game development talent, collaboration and sharing that will benefit the entire industry.

More @ http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/aug06/08-13XNAGameStudioPR.mspx

Does this mean Delphi.NET could be used to target XBox 360 via XNA?

[NecroDOME]

Does this mean Delphi.NET could be used to target XBox 360 via XNA?

That would be nice :D

[Clootie]

Managed for used for core of game engine!
No way!
:D

Better tune FreePascal for it!

[dmantione]

I'm not aware of a CLR implementation for the XBox360, native code seems a more logical choice. Even if there is, many API's like Winforms on which Delphi .NET might rely will not be available.

[jdarling]

You will not be able to use Delphi.NET but you will be able to use Chrome to develop applications on XNA. Fact of the matter is, that Delphi.NET is a bastardized form of .NET and does not completely comply to CLR compliation. The details are long and boaring, but there are many threads on the difference (and downfalls) of Delphi.NET to Chrome and regular .NET compilers.

Of course, Borland could change that if they so chose.

[noeska]

I think the clr runtime for the xbox360 will be part of the sdk you can download at the end of this month.

Also i think the delphi.net compiler make compatible enough clr code as i can use it on my website i just need to provide some .dll files.

Speed may be a concern. But by using hardware acceleration features where available this should not be a great concern. (Less code is better)

The only thing i am a bit afraid of is that if microsoft feels like it they go for .net 2.0 instead of 1.1 and that leaves us with delphi.net in the cold as delphi.net cannot compile for .net .2.0

[jdarling]

I think the clr runtime for the xbox360 will be part of the sdk you can download at the end of this month.

Also i think the delphi.net compiler make compatible enough clr code as i can use it on my website i just need to provide some .dll files.

Speed may be a concern. But by using hardware acceleration features where available this should not be a great concern. (Less code is better)

The only thing i am a bit afraid of is that if microsoft feels like it they go for .net 2.0 instead of 1.1 and that leaves us with delphi.net in the cold as delphi.net cannot compile for .net .2.0

Actually the XBOX 360 CLR is based on .NET 3.0 and 2.0. 1.1 is not supported, this is why I say that you have to have Chrome or another true .NET compiler. You won't be able to distribute the DLL's necessary to utilize the Delphi applications onto an XBOX (unless you hack of course).

[savage]

The next version of Delphi.NET will be 2.0 compliant. Delphi.NET can generate native .NET code and it is not reliant on just Winforms. Also I heard that .NET 3.0 is just .NET 2.0 with WinFX extensions so it should be compatible with .NET 2.0.

[jdarling]

The next version of Delphi.NET will be 2.0 compliant. Delphi.NET can generate native .NET code and it is not reliant on just Winforms. Also I heard that .NET 3.0 is just .NET 2.0 with WinFX extensions so it should be compatible with .NET 2.0.

Its a little more then just WinFX, it has the BitLocker stuff built in, has WinFX, WPF, WWF, and many other "new" things. Some of witch arn't so new :).

Delphi doesn't generate native .NET code (at least not in 2003, they may have chaned something in 2005). This problem has been brought to light and mainly lyes in the way that Delphi manages strings and dynamic arrays. Witch are not supported by the .NET foundation, nor is memory re-allocation supported by 1.1 or 2.0's CLR. This is why people still have to write device drivers and servers in VC++.NET witch compiles down to native code that has permissions to access the .NET framework.

Another BIG change in 3.0 are some new features for the power down system presented in Vista and Longhorn. In Vista a user can choose to "Shutdown now" (gee they were origional with that wording) and thru new messages the application will be notified that it has no choice but to shut down. Where as right now you can send a false back and tell windows it can't shut down. This is completely different then anything done in previous versions of windows (very Linux and Mac like though).

XNA and the next gen 360 firmware are supporting this as well. Don't get me wrong, someone will find a way to compile XNA applications for the 360 and the other platforms that XNA supports within Delphi, but Chrome is still the recommended compiler for .NET/XNA applications in pascal.

Of course, right about now, everyone thinks I'm some Delphi bashing bastard. Couldn't be further from the trooth, but I have to admit that I've lost my faith in Borland, and DevCo has a long way to go to get it back. Right now I'm 100% Chrome and FPC when it comes to Pascal.

[WILL]

Jeremy: Nothing wrong with being pro Chrome/FPC. In fact this is how these other compilers survive afterall. ;)

This is interesting news indeed. Everyone knows I'm a big supporter of Pascal across as many platforms as possible. Thats how to ensure that the language will thrive. (at last in some areas, right ;))

XNA could be a link to get Delphi and other .NET compilers into XBox development, but will the new DevCo and the REMObjects people make it easy?

[Clootie]

Its a little more then just WinFX...

...This is why people still have to write device drivers and servers in VC++.NET witch compiles down to native code that has permissions to access the .NET framework...

Another BIG change in 3.0 are some new features for the power down system presented in Vista and Longhorn...
As I understand all .NET 3.0 and Delphi compatibility talks are completely bullshit! This is just because .NET 3.0 (previously known as WinFX) is just a new version of common LIBRARY based on the same old CLR 2.0! So [in theory at least] you just need to download .NET 3.0 import it in Delphi and you are ready.

Writing device drivers in .NET managed code? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Can you prove this?

Powerdown and 3.0..? How could just some little additional windows messages send to application be tied to .NET 3.0? By saying that you state what only .NET 3.0 application will work correctly with this "Shutdown now" feature. Do you really feel people in MS are so stupid?

[jdarling]

Writing device drivers in .NET managed code? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Can you prove this?

Powerdown and 3.0..? How could just some little additional windows messages send to application be tied to .NET 3.0? By saying that you state what only .NET 3.0 application will work correctly with this "Shutdown now" feature. Do you really feel people in MS are so stupid?
Clootie, you mis-read what I said :)
VC++ for .NET (any version) can still compile to native code for device drivers and ect. but its code can hook into .NET managed code from within native. In fact, right now, its the only way to write device drivers, managed code device drivers were on the planning board, but got dropped.

The shutdown messages were a sample of the simplest things that are being added, old applications will still work with the new feature. They just won't be given the expected response if they don't implement the new messages (witch can be done within Delphi, see http://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms700677.aspx for changes). I was simply stating that .NET 3.0 has more then just WinFX. Notice that the article is about Vista and not .NET 3.0, but the changes apply to the new .NET as well (considering that Vista is and .NET 3 are partners in a way). You can still import them in 1.1 and 2.0 (they are simply messages) as I have said a few times, it was an example and nothing more. I could have said (and did) WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) and Windows Slideshow integration. Witch will not (from my experience and testing) be available in 1.1 applications, and are limited in 2.0 applications. I could have also said Ink, witch some will argue is part of WinFX, or others that I believe to be cool features for games and developers in general.

Considering that I work with people from MS every day, I don't think that they are stupid (well not all of them at least). They have put ALOT of thought behind the new versions of Windows and .NET. Many hours have been spent, so yes I have respect for their work.

My point was about compiling XNA applications with Delphi. It won't work (meaning currently doesn't work). Compiling XNA applications in Chrome does work, and compiling XNA applications within the .NET 2.0 environment currently works (XNA isn't 3.0 but is 3.0 compatiable, I can see where my paragraphs run a bit together, I'm not an ace of words). So when/if Delphi goes to a full CLR implementation of 2.0 it should be able to work. Just not right now.

I was also trying to point out that 3.0 was comming, and borland still hasn't got 2.0 working (RemObjects Chrome works with 2.0 and should work with 3.0 straight out). Saying that, from what I know, CLR 3.0 does have new Op-Codes and is backward compatiable (it wouldn't make sense for it not to be).

[Sly]

In the 30 years of video game development, the art of making console games has been reserved for those with big projects, big budgets and the backing of big game labels. Now Microsoft Corp. is bringing this art to the masses with a revolutionary new set of tools, called XNA Game Studio Express, based on the XNA‚Ñ¢ platform. XNA Game Studio Express will democratize game development by delivering the necessary tools to hobbyists, students, indie developers and studios alike to help them bring their creative game ideas to life while nurturing game development talent, collaboration and sharing that will benefit the entire industry.

More @ http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/aug06/08-13XNAGameStudioPR.mspx

Does this mean Delphi.NET could be used to target XBox 360 via XNA?

There are some caveats to this.
- To make games using XNA Game Studio Express, you need to pay US$99/year to be a member of the "XNA Creators Club".
- The people who want to play your games will also need to have XNA Game Studio Express installed on their PC and have a current subscription to the "XNA Creators Club" (US$99/year).
- XNA Game Studio Express only runs on Windows XP.
- Therefore you and the people who want to play your game must also have Windows XP installed on their home PC.
- Both parties also need to have the XNA runtime installed on their Xbox 360.

[WILL]

Wow. Really sounds like XNA is rather cumbersome right now. What are the odds that making XBox/XBox360 games will seem less like a cheap hack on the machine or an accessory addon? IOW be able to make games that are able to sell like all the other 'Normal' XBox games?

[Sly]

In the future, Microsoft are going to allow games created with XNA Game Studio Professional (not Express) to be sold over Xbox Live Arcade.

I must admit that I play more Xbox Live Arcade games than actual commercial games on the Xbox 360. Did I mention that I got the Xbox 360 for free? :)

[XProger]

Delphi can compile *.obj files?
Microsoft linker can create executable from *.obj files?
What is problem? ;)

[Sly]

Different file formats. They may have the same file extension, but internally they are structured differently, i.e. they are incompatible. There is extremely little chance for Delphi to be used for Xbox 360 development, with the main hurdle being that the Xbox 360 runs a PowerPC-based CPU.