PGD Annual 2007: Possibility of Two Competitons!

[WILL]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to guage some feedback from everyone. What would be your interests if in 2007 we had 2 competitions instead of just the one?

They would be run side-by-side and the main one would be the usually full length of time which is about 4 months. The other would have a much smaller time of about a month or so and much fewer tasks/requirements. ie. a smaller game vs. a bigger game.

Each would have either a different sub-theme or same with but a different spin on the same event theme of both.


Would you be more/less interested in the smaller or bigger one or both?

We'd like to expand the PGD Annual event a bit to involve more kinds of game developers. Not only to just those who can handle bigger and more involved development timeframes, but to those that perfer to make the more smaller mini-games or 'casual' games. So this is our little way of including those types of developers into the event. Let us know what you think.

[tanffn]

I’d even say you should introduce a ‘tiny’ competitions, that’s might be something that I’m able to participate in :)

[JernejL]

If there won't be any strict rules, like opening source code, i will have a entry for the mini competition, based on the tdc engine, if that would be allowed.

I think the rules should go something along this:


Just make a game using pascal. The most fun / enjoyable game wins.

And that would be also the only thing to judge.

[cairnswm]

I'd like two competitions but thats because I like competitions :)

I'd rather have two competitions though the year. One at the start of the year (4 months) and one later in the year (1 month - around September).

[JernejL]

I'd like two competitions but thats because I like competitions :)

I'd rather have two competitions though the year. One at the start of the year (4 months) and one later in the year (1 month - around September).

thats too long away, that would be 1 year from now :/

[cairnswm]

I ment a 4 month contest Jan-Apr and a 1 month in Sepetember.

[NecroDOME]

I second cairnswm.

If you have 2 compo's running at the same time, you only would have time to build one game. (well, in most cases :P )

[WILL]

I see what you guys are saying...

Well what if we ran them one after the other?

The smaller one first than the longer one after. There would be a longer wait for the results for the smaller one, but we can announce it a bit ealier while the judges are working on the main competition entries.

It could work as a warm-up to the big one and take advantage of all the early event hype. That way it draws in maximum participation and everyone gets a crack at it.

It would make it very competative though. But I think that that is a good thing. Better showcase for next year. ;)

AND it gives more chances for others to pick-up an Excellence award that year! All the entries for the mini compo will count towards the big awards too.

[tanffn]

So you’re not considering the tiny competition? :cry:

[jdarling]

I think that two competitions a year, one 4 months and one 1 month sounds pretty good. As long as they don't run at the same time then interested parties actually stand a chance on making both entries. If we find we have little time then the one monther is perfect, those with more time will find the four monther compo fun and interesting, and most likely people would enter into both if they wern't at the same time.

As for mini competitions, my thoughts are that their are really quite a few 24, 48, 96, and one week compos to keep you busy throughout the year already. Its the medium and long compos that tend to keep Pascal out of play (not on purpose, just seems by nature).

Just my two cents. Of course I've been backing a short and long for a while now.

[WILL]

Well if by 'tiny' you mean 24-hour or 48-hour like Jeremy is thinking, then not, not for the PGD Annual anyways.

The thing about those action packed competitions is that they really draw on your ability to pull out all the stops for 1 or 2 whole days. And afterwards, at least with the impression I get, is that you'll probably be all drained of physical or creative energy afterwards. So when it came time to startup the 4 month you'd be starting with an instant handicap.

Plus if we were to stick one afterwards you'd still be tired from it as a long development period like our 4 month annual competitions take their toll over time. (kinda like sprinting vs. long distance running)

The 1 month is ideal because it gives a more moderate length of time and you're not as frantic about coding as to restrict some forethought about what you might want to do with the main one, should you decide to enter it aswell.


I'm sort of rolling around in my head the idea of starting the main competition off about half way or a week left into the 1-mo compo as you already have a basic idea as to the theme will be based around or close to.

This is not official just yet, but we are also considering making the planning stage submission manitory for this one aswell. (just for the main comp. not the small one) If this is the case we will provide the template for the design docs and all you'll have to do is fill it out. But this would make room for some minor overlapping to help condense the time frame of the whole event slightly.

[tanffn]

I was think thing to continue dividing by four, making the tiny competition one-week long.
One month is just too long, for me anyway, especially giving the new contest format (deadlines).
I think the tiny competition should have it own set of unique rules, maybe even give an engine a day or so before reviling the topic. Allowing the contesters start on an even grounds and focus only on the tast at hand..

[NecroDOME]

24-hour well, that would be a sleepless day... :P

For the first 1 month and then 4 month compo it sounds to me more than a 5. I think it's better to make a 4 month and then a 1 month with a fresh start. This way you get more games. (correct me if im wrong)

[NecroDOME]

I think one week is to short... Most people don't have time to build off a engine and a game wihtin one week.

[WILL]

Yeah... 1 week is way too short. But we would not have any more than the one deadline for the smaller one. It would be more typical of the usual game competition.

Then again... this whole idea fringes on the amount of people entering either of the two competitions. In other words, we'd have to have enough new entering teams in total so we are not just splitting the teams for the small competition with the ones from the big competition. If we can't see a signifigant enough increase of interest in the PGD Annual it's self this thing isn't gonna happen.

...or it just might take a few more years.

[FNX]

I've answered both but not at the same time.

I would like to have one main compo once a year, for example across the
new year like now, maybe shorter than 4 month but not far from it.

Also, it would be nice to have say 2-3 short compos during every year,
maybe march-june/july-october.

I say so because last year i got some big troubles with my daily job
right before the first deadline that forced me to retire. It this is gonna
happen again at least i can get into the next one without waiting for 12
month. Also it would generate more traffic/activity on the forums by
the community.

Of course the 2-3 months compo should be more complex than the 1
months (or 3 weeks) one, like MMO-game the long and a simple arcade
the second.. stuff like that :)

[tanffn]

I think one week is to short... Most people don't have time to build off a engine and a game wihtin one week.

Thats why I said give the competitors a pre-made engine a few days before the competition starts.

I think it will allow focusing more on the game rather then other elements.

[NecroDOME]

A pre-made engine?
Not everyone likes a pre-made engine. We'r building almost than 2 years on our own 3D engine, so when I gonna make a game, it uses my own engine!

[Zenophran]

Perhaps an appropriate engine could be made available as a "default" engine for the competitions. This would allow people to use their own engine if they wish, but helps out new starters by giving them something to work with.

Another thing that would be very useful, especially for the short competitions, is a content pack. The pack could include some models/textures/sounds/etc for use in the competition. eg: a fantasy competition may have a warrior and mage, a few trees and grass textures. For some competitions the requirement may be to use only the supplied content and focus on gameplay.

Just a (very sleep deprived) thought.

[NecroDOME]

Perhaps an appropriate engine could be made available as a "default" engine for the competitions.
This would be a perfect idea.


Another thing that would be very useful, especially for the short competitions, is a content pack.
Also a good idea...

[jdarling]

It would be quite interesting to have a content based contest. Just a bunch of sounds, music files, bitmaps and/or models. No description of what the game should be, and judged for origionality around graphics and use of sound. Modification of origionals should be minimal (IE: Its ok to render a 3D model for use in a 2D engine, or to tint the model to gain more elements from it, it shouldn't be ok to up the poly count, or re-draw any 2D art provided).

Could be like the MIT cardboard box challenge. Use as much as you can from the box (including the box) and points based from that.

[NecroDOME]

I was thinking about that a while ago... I never took the time to make a post, but I like it for a 1 month contest.
But you shoud not modify/change the content. Not even create a 3D model!

[grudzio]

I like it. A programming version of Ready, Steady, Cook (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/tv_and_radio/readysteadycook_index.shtml).
Another (extreme) possibility would be no content at all. Everything must be made procedurally.

[JSoftware]

Interesting idea about premade content! I think the primary problem of my previous attempts to create a game for a compo was getting the needed content.

But it could backfire as you might get too many entries! :P

[Zenophran]

Another (extreme) possibility would be no content at all. Everything must be made procedurally.

I like this idea too, however, I've no idea how to go about doing that. Perhaps the "default engine" might be capable. There's no reason that you couldn't have a default graphics engine, a default sound engine...

Another way to mix it up would be to select a different engine for some of the mini comps and give people 3 months to learn the engine and create something. These sort of comps may not need to have prizes (as nice as they are) but could be used for showcasing games made with pascal. Allow the community to vote (preferably only those who were registered prior to the start of the competition to reduce rigging the poll's). Some examples could be the leaf and asphyre engines to start with. It would be a more fair way to promote multiple engines rather than pick any one in particular.

[cairnswm]

Perhaps an appropriate engine could be made available as a "default" engine for the competitions.
This would be a perfect idea.


If you want an engine use one of those already available = they are all "Default" for all competitions,

[Zenophran]

Perhaps an appropriate engine could be made available as a "default" engine for the competitions.
This would be a perfect idea.


If you want an engine use one of those already available = they are all "Default" for all competitions,

Indeed, but having some easily accessible list of available engines would be very useful. I know I've struggled at times to find something that plays nicely with Delphi. If you know of such a list, please post it.

[cairnswm]

How about this list: http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/forums/index.php?c=7

[Zenophran]

How about this list: http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/forums/index.php?c=7

Umm, yeah, that's a good start. I don't know why I didn't see it. :-( Thanks heaps.

[NecroDOME]

Soon I will release my engine, so you can add it to the list...

[WILL]

Soon I will release my engine, so you can add it to the list...

Hey, Sure thing! :) Just keep in mind that also means a ton of people will be bugging you for some updates along the way. :P