3rd Annual PGD Competition due to start Feb 1st... [Archive]

WILL

15-01-2007, 05:13 PM

...I must/will find time no matter what. Even if I'll have to drop out of the University I want to compete. :twisted:
As flattering as that is, please don't. :)

Though even if you are able to make a partial working/complete game, this still helps in showing numbers at the competitions.

We had a lot of people register last year, but only a fraction of those submitted working entries. Mind you I am also grateful that those that only submitted partial work did so, it still helped to show an interest in the competitions and that it was growing.

Dom an I have been talking and it looks like we're gonna be deep in PGD Annual territory soon. So I'd gather your tools now. If it's not out yet, don't sit and wait for it. I'd find a solution for whatever game you'll end up making starting Feb 1st with whats available to you now.

I've also been asked to help with the write-up of the regulations (not rules), since I've some experience with last year. This year we can promise that we'll learn from the last one and have a longer more detailed set of rules for all to read and agree to. (You do so automatically by registering for the competition anyhow.) Rest assured though that most of the regulations will not change too much. Most of the additional information will be just clarification of pre-existing things that were not properly penned from last year.

Also no volunteer artist for the competition promotional stuff yet. We are still looking if anyone is interested please email myself at raproductions@hotmail.com OR private message either savage or myself here on PGD.

Zenophran

17-01-2007, 01:48 AM

... but I really want to compete so I must/will find time no matter what. Even if I'll have to drop out of the University I want to compete. :twisted:

That's my problem, but unfortunately I'm not quite as dedicated to the comp as I am to uni at this point. I'm hoping to finish it this year so I'll be looking towards next years comp. If I can muddle through getting FPC/Lazarus working I'll be looking towards a cross-platform entry.

jdarling

17-01-2007, 03:32 PM

Any rules this year against using existing engines? I was thinking of using JS4 for this years compo, as I've implemented many improvements from last years version that make development a bit easier :).

Can't wait till Feb 1 and Feb 2 :). Feb 1 Compo starts, Feb 2 close on our new house. Hope that first deadline is an easy one so moving doesn't have to be pushed back :)

Ñuño Martínez

17-01-2007, 03:51 PM

Can somebody explain to me in what consists this competition? I have participated in other as SpeedHack, TINS, ScreenHack...

Traveler

17-01-2007, 04:02 PM

Can somebody explain to me in what consists this competition? I have participated in other as SpeedHack, TINS, ScreenHack...

As savage wrote, the finer details will be made available in a few weeks time.
However, judging by PGD's previous competitions, there will probably be a theme of some sort which you will need to incorporate into your game.

dmantione

17-01-2007, 04:05 PM

Can somebody explain to me in what consists this competition? I have participated in other as SpeedHack, TINS, ScreenHack...

Take a look at the previous competitions: http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/competitions.php

Ñuño Martínez

17-01-2007, 04:26 PM

Thanks. I think I get it.

When it says "the main code for the game had to be written in Pascal", does it means I can use C to write the the engine, or LUA to write the AI?

dmantione

17-01-2007, 05:04 PM

My personal opinion:

The engine can be considered part of the main code. I don't think this should be any trouble for a programmer, there are many good game engines written in Pascal available.

Scripts seem more supplemental code to me. The scripting engine on the other hand, is a hard question. I would consider it part of the main code, but I know there are not much available scripting engines written in Pascal yet, so this would pose a barrier.

WILL

17-01-2007, 06:28 PM

In my talks with Dom,

savage: yes a media API with a Pascal interface is fine, Ported to Pascal projects like Quake 2 or Quake 3 engines are also fine as they are written in Pascal.
savage: As long as they don't submit the port we can accept it
savage: ie, that they have added content gameplay etc. Just changing the graphics in the ports does not count as a valid submission

?ëu?±o: Traveler is absolutely right, there will be a gameplay theme you'll have to follow. The specific rules of the competition do not get released until just before the competition starts to keep everyone on equal footing as far as design goes.

Other information will updated as things start to form. Prizes, judges, etc... but first and foremost on the starting day of the competition are the rules and regulations governing the event.

Plus this year we'll be adding a competition entry agreement. Nothing restrictive on you guys, just gives us permission to use your entries for distribution and advertising for future competitions...

cronodragon

22-01-2007, 02:47 AM

I want to participate this year. It's exciting. :D

I have an engine I'm writting in Delphi, which is not complete, but I think it has enough power to build a game... is it necessary to release the engine's source code? I want to sell it commercially later on. Since it's made in Delphi, I could just release the .dcu files and the source of the main program, is it vaild?? :?

Traveler

22-01-2007, 09:03 AM

cronodragon

22-01-2007, 12:31 PM

You will probably have to give PGD rights to redistribute your game (or related materials like screenshots or perhaps even videos) for promotional activities. But, if it is anything like last year then it's not necessary to release the sourcecode as well.

That would be great. I have no problem on that as long as my engine' source is closed. Indeed PGD is helping indie developers with those promotional activities, there is no reason not to give them the rights. :D

WILL

22-01-2007, 03:15 PM

cronodragon, I think we both feel the same way about that, however some may not so there will be a new disclaimer to read and by registering, as per the agreement, you automatically are claiming to agree.

I think I can speak for Dom when I say that we are leaning the way of allowing closed source for those that want to later use their engines for commercial purposes. Last year it had a positive effect so we will likely continue to do so unless we can for see other reasons to change it back.

NecroDOME

22-01-2007, 04:15 PM

IF you must release your source for the compo, I think you can create an dll from your engine and release the game's source.

Traveler

22-01-2007, 05:05 PM

On the subject of engines, you could argue that those using an engine have unfair advantages over those without their own engine.
So in that light, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few restrictions about using them, unless they are available to the general public as well.

dmantione

22-01-2007, 05:21 PM

People not having their own engine can download one of the existing ones. You can try to regulate this, for example nobody could be allowed to use an existing engine, but this would hurt the quality of the games produced in the compo, and getting good games should be one of the goals. So I think not regulating it is better. Some people will use their existing engine, some will download one, and some will write their own.

AthenaOfDelphi

22-01-2007, 05:45 PM

Not that I'm competing this year, but I tend to agree with Traveller on the subject of pre-written engines. I could have spent months (years even) writing an engine, it could encapsulate a lot of the functionality that someone who is starting from scratch will have to contend with. All I have to do is pump in control logic and content. By anyones definition that would give me one hell of an advantage in the competition.

For that reason, from a personal perspective, I'd like to see a ban on pre-written engines.

Just for clarity... I don't consider Asphyre or DelphiX etc. to be engines as such. By engine I mean a more fully featured tool set.

As for the quality of the games... I would say Tanx was pretty dam good... that was Dirk on his own using Asphyre as a base... pre-written engines do not necessarily mean a better finished product. I was also chuffed to bits with what I managed to achieve (given it was my first client side game), and there wasn't a single line of code in existence before the start of the competition... except of course for unDelphiX.

However, I suspect there would be a lot of people complaining if engines were banned... reinventing the wheel and all that, so maybe a good solution is to use one of the Pascal engines that are available. And, to try and make it a fair fight, the authors of said engine can't compete in the competition in which their code is being used. Thats kind of a nice halfway house. Those people who want to use a pre-written engine can use one... the same as everyone else is using, or they can write their own.

Just my $0.02

cronodragon

22-01-2007, 06:20 PM

For that reason, from a personal perspective, I'd like to see a ban on pre-written engines.

I think it would be hard to determine what to ban. For example if I use something "basic" like DirectX libraries, I would have advantage over people using OpenGL, since there are a lot of helper classes like D3DSprite and so. Also some platforms are harder to develop than others. The only way to be fair is to set the platform, compiler, IDE, tools, etc, and in such case people used to those settings will have the advantage, for example I have never done anything for Linux, if that was the platform I would have to spend weeks learning how to deal with it. It's difficult if not impossible to be fair in these competitions. :?

jdarling

22-01-2007, 06:49 PM

My personal view on the subject of pre-existing engines is this. PGD's main goal is to get a winner that stands a change at IGF. To be honest, most of the entries in IGF have been working on their entries for years. This is not jus the engine its everything; engines, storylines, graphics, music, sound, etc...

PGD is a short turn competition, and a pre-built engine allows the developers to focus on polishing; storyline, graphics, music, sound, etc...

Tanx started from scratch, this is true (at least its been posed as true). It went up against many entries that started with existing engines, and won. Not because of its engine, because it was fun, semi-stable, and had a good storyline to go with it.

Last year I started on JumpStart, I plan on using it for this years compo as well. I've spent ALOT of time on it to make sure that I can focus on my entries polishing points. Wasting time on re-inventing the wheel isn't something I want to do again, nor is it something I will do again until I start playing in 3D.

In short: An engine does not a game make.

One final note: I would say that using Asphere, GLScene, or DelphiX is the use of a pre-existing engine. They give the developer a real edge in things that take VERY long periods to create, font renders, graphics wrappers, image and texture loading, and etc... Call it what you want, but these provide more then just a simple wrapper around existing 3rd party contexts. After all, where is the DirectX API to load an MD3 model? How about the API method to automatically load a 333x231 bitmap with color key into OpenGL and make it work on most graphics cards? These are things that an Engine does, not a game. The game simply makes use of the features surfaced by the engine.

WILL

22-01-2007, 07:34 PM

Ok firstly... EVERYONE has good points. :P So lets just get that outta the way. ;)

Now here is how I personally feel about it.

(Dom is the all mighty high grand lord --with sprinkles-- of the PGD Annual this year so it's all his call. Not mine this time.)

The purpose of the competitions are to help grow the Pascal game making world as a whole. And it's also for fun, but we have that anyways, don't we? ;)

A person can have a pre-made game engine and the game still sucks. ie. Star Trek Armada 2 (had Armada 1 as a code-base, but screwed the game up in 2. Sorry if you liked it.), Star Wars Battlegrounds (used AoE2's engine), etc... I'm sure you have your own crappy games lists out there, but these ones were done for at least half a year's time with a budget.

Which leads me into my second point, the Independent Games Festival. I believe as Jeremy just mentioned most if not all of the other games presented there have a much longer development time-frame, Some are even over a year or more. Going up against these guys is sort of becoming the main theme and your top prize since last year. (along with whatever super cool version of Delphi Borland/CodeGear has been juicing up the prizes with :thumbup: --Thanks sponsors! ;))

So if we want the winning entry to stand out in the IGF with the best possible chance there, making them start over is kind of a rough rub, no?

Here is my whole underlying ethos on this... The more experienced developers/teams that take part in the PGD Annual are going to have an edge anyhow. New people will want to participate to learn from it and have fun. If they are talented then they may win a few prizes or not.

So as I've said before a crappy game can be made off a good engine and a fun game can be made from nothing all the same. But what we want to do is build up the competitions from year to year and this means not only participation, prizes and cool new ideas for the competitions, but also have each year's teams come back more experienced. And in time they will come back with more punch from last year so that it becomes an ongoing thing, not just something that we do each year to win a free copy of new Delphi and bug the IGF people about Pascal. :)

WILL

22-01-2007, 07:44 PM

Oh... and just for edification, this is not to say that a game's design should not be from scratch as it should but the underlying engine and (graphics, network, input, sound, etc)code-base it's self is what I'm referring to.

Traveler

22-01-2007, 08:59 PM

The purpose of the competitions are to help grow the Pascal game making world as a whole.

But what we want to do is build up the competitions from year to year and this means not only participation, prizes and cool new ideas for the competitions, but also have each year's teams come back more experienced

While I agree with some of your points, I also believe we should think about those who are just starting out, those who dont have the experience.
I mean, if we are the experienced ones, why should we also have the benefit of 'our' pre-made engines?

Here is my whole underlying ethos on this... The more experienced developers/teams that take part in the PGD Annual are going to have an edge anyhow. New people will want to participate to learn from it and have fun. If they are talented then they may win a few prizes or not.

It is unfair to the lesser experienced to expect them to compete against someone who uses his own premade engine.
Because where the latter can spend his time creating content and perfecting gameplay, the new guy worries about why his sprites aren't moving like they should (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?t=4055)(no offense Wizard).

If the experienced have an edge, at least let them start on equal ground.

NecroDOME

22-01-2007, 10:00 PM

I also believe we should think about those who are just starting out, those who dont have the experience.
Isn't that where these forums are for? I mean, ppl who just get started ask a lot of question as we can help them here.

For pre-made engines, I released also an engine ppl can use.

ps 1. I vote "YES" for using pre-made engines :P
ps 2. wasn't this discussion already at the previous compo, so we have some sort of dedja vu?

EDIT: Those who pre-made an engine could also just "copy there code" and pretend nothing happend, so ppl always WILL use pre-made stuff...(a whole or part of an engine/content/whatever)

technomage

22-01-2007, 10:25 PM

As a Judge in last years competition I played all of the games thoroughly. I have to say it did not make any difference if someone use a pre-built engine or wrote something from scratch. One of my faviorite games was written from scratch uisng just the Directx headers, the winner just used Asphere as a base. The previous year the winner used GlScene which is a much more complete engine.

I agree people starting from scratch have a lot more to code that people using engines, but it is a choice at the end of the day. I'm sure there are teams who competed last year who will enter this year and do things differently (use an different engine etc), this means they have learnt from the experieice.

Also there is nothing stopping people from asking for help during the competition , as long at the Judges don't get invloved thats OK. It also encourgages more traffic on the site.

I think that that fact that all the competitors help each other out in the competitions shows what a great community this is.

WILL

22-01-2007, 11:02 PM

It is unfair to the lesser experienced to expect them to compete against someone who uses his own premade engine.
Because where the latter can spend his time creating content and perfecting gameplay, the new guy worries about why his sprites aren't moving like they should (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?t=4055)(no offense Wizard).

Before you learn how to cook a fish you must first learn how to catch a fish.

If the experienced have an edge, at least let them start on equal ground.

Thats just the thing, they're not. This is life. So instead of trying to pull down the more experienced guys (frustrating them more than anything) to make everyone equal is doing more harm than good.

This is the way things are done in all areas of game development. I see no reason why the PGD Annual has to be different. You still learn from taking part and talking about your entries and your problems with them in the forums either way.

Truth is, all the teams are not going to be completely balanced or equal no matter what we try. So we should choose the less invasive solution.

grudzio

22-01-2007, 11:02 PM

I think that banning pre made engines is not a good idea. It would give an advantage to people using engines like GLscene, Asphyre or NecroEngine. So if engines are to be banned then all should be banned pre made and existing ones.

Personally I am against banning.

Firstly, advanced game engines tend to be game specific, so depending on competition theme having such engine might not be an advantage.

Secondly, I think that all experienced programmers (if they dont use existing engines) have some kind of framework for things like loading and displaying graphisc, fonts etc. The less experienced ones tend to use existing engines anyway. So chances are even.

And thirdly, we want to show those C++ people something to remember, don't we? :D

Just my two cents.

22-01-2007, 11:51 PM

I'm quite surprised some people want to "ban existing engines" in the competition. First, a concept of engine is subjective to those who post here.

For instance, some mentioned Asphyre (Note to jdarling: it's AsphYre, not AsphEre) being an engine. As a developer, I don't consider it being an engine and I formally define it as a game development framework. On a similar note, if you call Asphyre an engine, you may call D3DX interface an engine as well and if you extend the senseless meaning of the word, you would call DirectX an engine too!

IMHO, all that is nonsense. For an example of a real game engine, look at Unreal Engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_engine).

Now, let's assume we keep with this senseless "engine" thing and talk about "pre-made engines". What are "pre-made engines"? Let's suppose you define Asphyre or DelphiX as a pre-made engine. Since I am the author of Asphyre, I can relicense it for myself under proprietary license and under contest rules it will no longer be considered "pre-made" engine, while I will still be able to use it (you will have a difficulty proving in court when I have written the code). The solution would be also banning the authors of these "pre-made" engines, which is simple personal discrimination (although even this can be circumvented by using intermediators or using some kind of anonymous approach).

IMHO, you will never be able to have complete equality of team participants's capabilities (some call it "fairness", which I think is wrong term) - it's not only about engines, you know. For instance, a person who has a very high-end system with dual-view, 10 years of programming experience and a certain talent will obviously have some edge in productivity over a novice developer working on a home low-end PC. In this case, will you ban the usage of high-end developer workstations as well and people with long curriculum vitae? :D

I bet those who want to ban pre-made engines and stuff like that simply have envy for other more resourceful developers. My suggestion to these people: stop whining and go read some books and train yourself; when you get more competitive, you won't need to limit/restrict other people to make your life "fair". ;)

Robert Kosek

23-01-2007, 12:28 AM

The idea of an engine ban is, in my opinion, foolhardy in the extreme. As Yuriy stated rather thoroughly, what constitutes an engine is highly debatable. But let me share my experience.

These are engines: A6 Unreal Engine LithTech Irrlicht Reality Factory
These are libraries or rendering packages, not engines: Asphyre DelphiX DanJetX OpenGL
The reason is simple, the engines are self-contained. Anything you could want, from scripting to networking and graphics, is bundled in and you don't even need a compiler per se! That is subjective as potentially you could get source access to these or write your own "engine" that qualifies.

Even the best engine cannot make the worst game fun, nor generosity a kind person makes. I am generous in my distribution of lead in FPS games, but that doesn't make me kind; remember that. So you can make a game off the dumbest idea with the Unreal5 and fail utterly, just like Petroglyph did with SW:EaW ... arguably the worst strategy game I have ever played in my entire life. Moddability is nothing if I don't enjoy the game in the first place.

This should be about the game and not what powers it. It should promote interesting concepts and unique uses of industry "standard" elements. I was considering joining the competition this year. But if it will degrade to this you can forget it!

WILL

23-01-2007, 12:55 AM

Just to add some food for thought and to take a way a bit from the thoroughly covered engine debate;

When game creation gets farther along and those developers and designers get more experienced, they do tend to think farther and in bigger scopes of graphics, sound APIs and other devices that make up a game. And as they get really advanced, or the few that go on to make really big games with full blown story and dialogs and such, engines and APIs are really just menial details.

Depending on what type of game you're making, games in most cases are about 40% programming 60% design. Of course this all pertains to what genre your focusing on and the gameplay elements you want to include. Generall though I've heard that the more story in your game, the longer the development. But I would have to assume that it's really just the quantity of content and variety of it that creates the amount of work.

This is something to develop a greater understanding of and develop ourselves on besides the programming, which does hold the greatest focus, granted.

WILL

23-01-2007, 04:56 AM

Hey guys, just a heads up!

I've placed the pre-event version of the PGD Annual poster on the front page to start visualizing things for the competition. Please note however the end date is only my best ball-park figure. It is not official!

I just didn't have the time to make any changes yet. So this is subject to change, but the start date is still on for the 1st of Feb.

Thanks. :)

jasonf

23-01-2007, 09:38 AM

Oh... looks like I missed the Pre-made engine discussion, Doh!..

Here's my 0.02GBP

I've been a member of the Torque gamedev community for a while now and had a few decent stabs at writing a game and even though Torque is a very very powerful engine with lots of community support, it's still a lot of hard work to make a decent and original game out of it. The engine is a true engine in that it takes care of everything, input, sound, music, level loading, networking, physics.. etc.. but it's still a gargantuan task.
Some people would believe that making a game with a complete engine should be very easy, surely just a matter of plugging in a few graphics and adding some scripts.. NOOooo.. not at all, the job is actually made harder BECAUSE it's a pre-made engine. You've got to completely understand someone else's way of thinking if you want to modify the engine (if you're given the source code). You end up fighting the engine to do something which you believe should be simple because you don't know the reasons why the problem was solved in a certain way. Why do my object fall to the ground? How can I make things fly? How do I add shields?...

It's true that if you know the engine inside out, you can get a good game idea fleshed out in a couple of weeks, this game would then need polishing but it would be basically functional. But the same can be said for the users of a general Framework. If you know what the framework does and doesn't do, if you're experienced, you can pull in other technologies to solve other problems.. The framework doesn't supply a physics implementation?.. fine, add in Newton. The sprite engine doesn't exist as such so it's easier to pull in and get working than to replace an existing engine's physics system after you've experimented with it and decided that it's not quite good enough.

If people want to ban existing engines in an attempt to level the playing field, and I do appreciate the sentement behind the idea and it's a very noble one.. I would also like to ask that only people in full time employment are allowed to compete too as it would be unfair as those without jobs are able to spend much more quality time on their project than those who work all day.. Now I AM joking here, but you can see where I'm going.. we could also say, "No Single people.. only those married with at least 2 children" or "Noone with more than 5 years experience". By leveling the playing field in this way, there would only be 2 or 3 people on the whole site who qualify to compete.

I say, leave it open to all regardless of engine choice, experience or available time and let's get something really cool written and promote Pascal as a bloody goodlanguage for writing cross platform games.

Traveler

23-01-2007, 09:55 AM

cairnswm

23-01-2007, 10:19 AM

In the local game dev contest they had a prize for the best new comer entry. So anyone that had previously entered a contest or anyone that was considered a regular and knowledgable member of the community was excluded from winning the prize.

Its easy to add a prize like this (newcomer as defined by the judges) to the prize pool to attrach complete beginners.

jasonf

23-01-2007, 11:06 AM

I was wrong to start the argument :)

Not at all, you made a very valid point. 8)

technomage

23-01-2007, 11:51 AM

savage

23-01-2007, 12:54 PM

Robert Kosek

23-01-2007, 02:20 PM

I was considering joining the competition this year. But if it will degrade to this you can forget it!
That would be our loss then.

As Dean wrote
I think that that fact that all the competitors help each other out in the competitions shows what a great community this is.
Surely, for that alone you'll want to be part of it.

It's not that I envy more resourceful developers, Yuri. In fact I salute them for having come that far already.
I was merely afraid people would not join because of the thought that other competitors would use engines and thus have a head start. (and yes, I was referring to engines such as the ones you wrote Robert. Not the various libraries).Certainly I do want to join in, with or without the help from other developers as the simple experience in making an attempt would do me good. It wasn't so much the talk about banning an engine that bothers me, but that some people would consider a library an engine.

I worked through a good half the NeHe tutorials straight from the C code to Pascal, my brain interpreting it on the fly. It's a skill I have learned to take a tutorial for another language and visualize it in pascal, but it is invaluable to say the least. Working directly with an API is difficult for a newbie or novice such as myself, and for some time I worked with dotGL (http://www.delphi3d.net/dot/) which was an enhanced openGL header. But I didn't get so far because my math skills in the 3d realm are poor, especially for camera manipulation and such. So I need a library at least until I improve my mathematics and programming skills, so any talk of banning that would literally pull the carpet right from beneath my feet.

Surely you all understand this sentiment, and why I resent sentiments such as:
Thats just the thing, they're not. This is life. So instead of trying to pull down the more experienced guys (frustrating them more than anything) to make everyone equal is doing more harm than good. It's not about pulling the experienced guys that I want or even care about, but just giving a novice programmer/designer a fair chance. And if that comes through letting them use an advanced library or an engine, then so be it.

I want this as much as anyone!

It's not so much that you were wrong to voice the argument as it was that your original point was construed into something more harsh than that, nearly to the point of making me feel my participation wasn't wanted. I may be a "regular" member, mostly a lurker, but I am by no means a very skilled or experienced programmer; especially where games are concerned. I think cairnswm's idea of a newcomer rank would make this more enjoyable for the experienced folk, and more fair to the beginners. :)

jdarling

23-01-2007, 02:32 PM

Its easy to add a prize like this (newcomer as defined by the judges) to the prize pool to attrach complete beginners.

I also like this idea and will do my best to have a prize for said team/individual.

Along the same idea, how about a best of 2D and a best of 3D award? We already have best in sound, graphics, and something else (my memory fails me, time for an upgrade).

Lifepower, sorry for the mis-spelling, I'm famious for them unless I'm working in Word with Spellcheck turned on and IT recoginizes the word :).

Robert Kosek

23-01-2007, 02:49 PM

Along the same idea, how about a best of 2D and a best of 3D award? We already have best in sound, graphics, and something else (my memory fails me, time for an upgrade).I like that idea. It would make the competition more interesting in my opinion.

Lifepower, sorry for the mis-spelling, I'm famious for them unless I'm working in Word with Spellcheck turned on and IT recoginizes the word :).Try Firefox 2, it has built in spellcheking. ;) And if you do any web design, the FireBug extension is a Godsend.

Sascha Willems

23-01-2007, 03:41 PM

Just wanted to note that I posted news about this years PGD contest over at the german Delphi-OpenGL-Community (http://www.delphigl.com/) and that I'll keep them also informed about the theme when the compo starts on february 1st. There are some talented people out there, so maybe some of them will compete this year.

savage

23-01-2007, 05:09 PM

Thanks Sascha great stuff.

WILL

24-01-2007, 03:06 AM

Nice! :) I hope some will participate.

Also everyone look out for a few mini-ads for the PGD Annual soon to come out on YouTube. :D I'll of course post a News item here on the site.

Huehnerschaender

24-01-2007, 12:34 PM

Just a little statement from me :)

I am working in the big world of software development. It is my job to build software for other companys and customers.

It is very very necessary to code things in a way that they can be REUSED. Modular programming, units which can be useful in other projects etc. So why the heck do some people want to avoid the biggest advantage of object oriented programming? A framework or even an engine is a piece of software which can be reused in a new project. So please DO THIS! If this is not allowed, then please do not allow to use Borlands units, too!

uses windows, types; <------------ NO! You did not code the functions yourself!

I think this whole discussion is worthless. Build a car without using parts which other people manufactured! Try it please :)

So every entry which uses engines, frameworks etc should be valid in my opinion.

The biggest quest here is to make a funny, stable, playable, original game using object pascal, not to reinvent the wheel!

In addition to this: some of you mentioned the graphics which are "just plugged into an engine". Anyone knows how hard it is to make good looking graphics? Should we ban people who are familiar with 3DS Max, too? Or people who are able to work with photoshop?

Please stop this discussion :)

Just my two eurocents *hihi*

WILL

24-01-2007, 02:59 PM

Just a little advance notice for everyone about what I've been working on for the last couple days.

As mentioned in my Video Ad thread (http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?t=3835), I've been planning to release video ads on sites like YouTube and Google Video. The first of these is going to be from footage captured from many of the games entered into the last 2 competitions.

What I've got so far looks great and I hope to be able to make at least one more just with the clips I'm gathering...

More will follow with further creativity.

Keep an eye out for these when they come out, I'll be posting a news item on the site in case you're not already on top of the 'YouTube craze' yet. ;)

Traveler

24-01-2007, 04:40 PM

Looking forward to seeing them!

jdarling

01-02-2007, 02:01 PM

Ok, its Feb 1st and I'm ready to go. Were is the compo :)

savage

01-02-2007, 02:04 PM

HopeDagger

01-02-2007, 02:32 PM

Sorry guys, due to Real Life(tm) WILL and I could not finalise things until last night. Assuming everything goes to plan we should be ready for launch tomorrow, with the added bonus that I have the day off as well.

Does this mean that the compo will run for an extra day to compensate?

Every day counts, darnit! :)

Traveler

01-02-2007, 02:44 PM

Planning on joining the party, too, HopeDagger :)

I'm sure an experienced programmer such as yourself (still doing C# these days?) isn't going to miss a day (or two). :wink:

WILL

01-02-2007, 03:18 PM

I'm not making any promises, but we might be setup this evening. If we end up releasing the information close to midnight however, we'll push back all the deadline dates exactly 1 day (24 hrs for those of you from Mars ;))

savage

01-02-2007, 11:03 PM

Competition details now available from the News page.

cronodragon

02-02-2007, 01:03 AM

I can¬¥t see the home page :cry: (using Firefox)

savage

02-02-2007, 12:33 PM

Can you see it now?

WILL

02-02-2007, 03:28 PM

I can¬¥t see the home page :cry: (using Firefox)

There was a bug that popped up last night when I got home. It killed the front page due to some issues with RSS Headline feeds. I've disabled the XML Parser and it works now, however the External RSS Headlines are off for the moment.

(PGD RSS News Feed still works. ;))

WILL

14-03-2007, 04:46 PM

Hey all! Just want to check-up on those of you that went silent. I'd imagine that most of you are hard at work on your entries, hence the silence... though considering the high drop rate in stage 2 from stage 1, I'm a little concerned that some of you may have given up on us.

Are you folks still with us? And can we hope to see an entry for your game in time for the stage 3 deadline?

I hope we can. ;) Once again, good luck to everyone!

Huehnerschaender

14-03-2007, 04:57 PM

Hey Jason,

personally I did nothing on my entry the whole last week. I was not able to...
I am really thinking about giving up, because I don't know if I will have the time for the further stages.

I need to do some additional stuff and it's not very much to fulfill the stage 3 goals. But after that it gets hard.

My real life needs me too much at the moment. Lets wait and see.. there is still more than one week for stage 3 and I hope I get everything needed into my entry. After that maybe planning time will work better...

WILL

14-03-2007, 05:13 PM

Well Dirk if you have all (or any of) the requirements for future stages all you have to do is re-upload within that stage's timeframe to get the points for work done.

But if you quit now, do know that we will judge and score your last entry at any of the stages as your final version at the end.

But if it's a matter of missing a stage or two, I wouldn't worry about it. :) There are lots more points to go around outside of the Time Management scores this year.

And... Excellence Awards will go to *any* of the entries, not only the highest scoring ones.

jasonf

14-03-2007, 05:23 PM

I'm still here, working hard on LOTS and LOTS of things, moving house, reconfiguring job, commuting and more.. but also still hard at work on the game.
I've got a lot of work to do to get near to my goals for Stage3, but I'm confident that I'll be able to do it, even it if means rotoscope graphics based on Stills (that's how Prince of Persia, Another World and Flashback were done, graphics drawn over stills of animation)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscope

It would certainly do away with the bluescreen requirements, but would add a lot of extra drawing work, but then it was never going to be easy.

pstudio

14-03-2007, 06:45 PM

I haven't been able to work on my entry since the last deadline either, but I still consider me as a part of this contest though I may miss a stage or two (or the rest of them).
It's just that stupid real life getting in way :wink:

technomage

14-03-2007, 09:48 PM

I haven't touched Brain Drain for 2 weeks, I've been busy with my family and the InfinitEngine (Had a few major brain storms onthe engine).

I havne't even started my second genre, so I could be in trouble :oops:

cairnswm

15-03-2007, 04:56 AM

After my marathon last weekend (4th) I sort of havn't touched my PC at home. Got LOTS still to do for stage 3, and I'm not sure I'm going to make it.

But I'm not out of the contest -still VERY much in even if I only feliver for the final deadline.

Mirage

15-03-2007, 08:28 AM

I'm working on my entry almost every day. :roll:
Still not sure that I could meet stage 3 requirements (clear implementation of econimic aspects) but I'll try. :)

It's sad to see "give-up"-spirit in this thread. I would like a competition!
Maybe publishing stage 2 scores will improve this. :wink:

jasonf

15-03-2007, 10:01 AM

Mirage has a point, when will the Stage2 scores be published? There seemed to be loads of energy in the compo, now the site is so quiet I can hear the crickets...

Come on guys, I want screenies, I want progress, I want demos, I want more movies, I want more activity... and I want a coffee.. (oh, I can do that myself;))

Huehnerschaender

15-03-2007, 11:57 AM

and I want a coffee..

Here ya go:

c(_)

All other things you want.... Hmmm... I want them myself. And I also want to put more effort in my entry, showing progress etc. I hope I'll find some time this weekend for BBA. I think I will meet stage 3 goals without much stress, but there are things I need to do for further stages, where I know yet already that time will be short to do them.

But as I already said... lets wait and see... I am aiming one of the first places! :)

Traveler

15-03-2007, 01:37 PM

I am aiming one of the first places! :)

Aren't we all :)

I'm currently working on the platform genre of my game. However, currently there's really isn't much to show, besides a couple blocks that make out the map and 2 sprites (one controlled by the player and one by the cpu)

Plan is to complete 65% of the AI rules, this weekend. Then next week (evenings) is reserved for graphics and maps. On saturday (24th) I want to add win/lose conditions and put it all together.

Not a huge list, but still enough work to be very busy.
Fortunately, after this stage, the fun parts starts, meaning more content. I'll probably be able to put up some more interesting videos/screenshots by then, too.

WILL

15-03-2007, 02:50 PM

Here is a post that I hope anyone feeling a little down about their entry this year will read: http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com/viewtopic.php?p=32328#32328

I am glad that most of you guys are still with us these competitions are meant to be fun so lets keep having it! :thumbup:

AthenaOfDelphi

15-03-2007, 03:14 PM

Hi all,

PLEASE DON'T THROW IN THE TOWEL

I'm getting worried that a whole bunch of you are going to drop out of the competition with all this talk of no time etc... that would be a huge shame, not only for you guys (remember whats at stake... some NICE prizes) but also for the competition.

If you can't make a stage deadline, thats no reason to quit. Every team that has submitted at least one entry for any stage upto and including the final deadline will be scored at the end (just a note though... registrations will be closed at the stage 5 deadline). So if you need to sacrifice some stage points to be able to finish then do it. You may not have time now, but you may be able to make time in later stages.

I'd also like to point out that whilst content can give a game the wow factor, the emphasis this year is really all about the bringing together of two (or more) genres. A badly done mix with great content may not score as highly as an excellent mix with not so great content.

Just bear all this in mind before you throw in the towel. I know how demanding the competition can be... last year was a struggle for me as I had the hassle of switching jobs in the middle of it.

So come on all of ya... stick with it. I want to have some entries to judge at the end of it :-D

3_of_8

15-03-2007, 03:31 PM

At the moment I would be satisfied if my current entry was judged. I'm really not very motivated right now, cause I have no idea where to work at next.

Ñuño Martínez

15-03-2007, 03:51 PM

I'm not out yet (I think I can do something before June) but real life beats me hard last month. Now I'm busy looking for a new home and I can't access to my PC since I have no space in my present house.

vgo

15-03-2007, 04:23 PM

I'd also like to point out that whilst content can give a game the wow factor, the emphasis this year is really all about the bringing together of two (or more) genres. A badly done mix with great content may not score as highly as an excellent mix with not so great content.

Well, I can always use just boxes and spheres of different sizes and colors to fill up the content quota for the game, but I'm not so sure if anyone's gonna be that excited to try it out though. ;)

3_of_8

15-03-2007, 04:28 PM

WILL

15-03-2007, 05:35 PM

Some content doesn't need to be overly complex. Has anyone ever played Darwinia (http://www.darwinia.co.uk/)? They used some very simple models in their game.

WILL

20-03-2007, 02:07 PM

Well 4 days left for stage 3, hows everyone doing? :)

jasonf

20-03-2007, 02:23 PM

Badly..

I've had Zero time for coding.. has it really gone so fast? I thought we had another week :?

I've not fixed any of the bugs from Stage2 yet.. I'll be doing some work tonight thought.. It doesn't seem like long ago when I uploaded my Stage2 submission... GULP! Sorting out the house has eaten all my time.

OK, (splashes face with cold water) Speed coding time tonight, this is going to be tight..

I've not even implemented any of the platform stuff yet.. I'm going to have to use placeholder art for this stage I think.

technomage

20-03-2007, 02:27 PM

Well, After much head scratching about the problems found in Stage 2 we finally got the entry working on All of the Judges machines.

I'm 2/3 of the way though implementing the word search game, currently it displays a list of words to find and the grid. I have also implemented the moving of a cursor (keyborard driven) around the grid, the idea is to use that to select the first and last letters of the work you find.

I should have that done by the weekend (time permitting). That should be both of the genre's implemented then. The rest of the time I'll spend "polishing" a few bugs found in testing and improving the graphics (which are very poor at the moment , so don't use it in the video WILL!!)

Huehnerschaender

20-03-2007, 02:48 PM

:shock:

4 days.... uh oh!

Fortunately I had implemented the 2nd genre in stage 2 already (partially). But it will be hard work for me to get the genres "fit together" in gameplay within 4 days.... There is a bunch of work to do... especially on UI.

WILL

20-03-2007, 03:00 PM

Here is a small reminder of what will earn/cost you points for stage 3:

Goal 1: Implement the 2nd of the chosen genre types in your game engine. Indicate clearly in your included Readme.txt how this is done and where to find it. -- 25 Points

Goal 2: Update your Readme.txt files explaining more about your entry's gameplay and how it will bring together all 2+ genre types into your game. -- 5 Points

Goal 3: Players must now be able to lose or be killed. -- 5 Points

The last two are rather easy ones if you are hurting for some points for this stage. Then again if you can get the first done thats the 2nd biggest chunk of the whole Time Management category so it would be worth trying to meet it.

Ah... don't worry guys, you can do it. Just put some shoulder grease into it! ;)

I've not heard a peep from Eric or Mindnever since Stage 1.... are you guys still in it?