The new TubeRunner gameplay

[chronozphere]

Hey guys :)

As you'll probably know I'm working on a new version of TubeRunner for the IGF. The gameplay will be different from my PGD annual entry. Originally, I had different plans like opponents, weapons etc... but due to a lot of delay and failure (yes, even the winner makes big mistakes ;) ) these could not be implemented. Now that I'm given a new chance, I would like to try this again.

I'll briefly describe my idea's for this game :)

Enemies and weapons: I would really like to include this. My game will make a shift from the arcade-ish feeling towards a more combat oriented gameplay. This means that there will be less powerups on the track. I might even remove the coins completely.
Instead, there will be a number of opponents and there will be weapons which you can use to eliminate them while racing at high speed. Overall, the game will be more like wipeout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxblW_OKHPY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnCn3yra2jQ

Race-tracks: I'm not sure how important these are for the gameplay. I could make a lot of really simple tracks (with simple tools, I also have to make). These will have less obstackles and they will look simpler. I could also make a few of them, each having more detail, obstackles and decorations.
I definitely want to keep the same atmosphere in the game (e.g the colored lights in the tunnel). Also, racing up the walls and ceiling will still be possible. 8)
Easy to learn, hard to master: When people fire up my game for the first time, I want them to be able to play it without any problems. The whole game must be intuitive, yet challenging.
Keep it small, Keep it fun: I think this is also very important. Having loads of options doesnt make the game better. For example, I don't want 10 different weapons and 8 different vehicles to race with. Just a few carefully selected weapons could make the game just as much fun. I'll only add extra vehicles, If I have extra time or when they could really increase the fun-factor.

These are just rough ideas. A lot of important questions haven't been answered. This is something I'm gonna need help with:


How can a player win the game?
Which aspects of this game should make it a fun game?
What kind of role should combat get in this game?
Also, what kind of role should racing get in this game?
What kind of role does the race-track itsself get in the game? Is it more than just a tube?
What kind of additional concepts should I introduce (like, lives, energy, armor, spawn points, check points, weapon-powerups, bonusses, score... you name it).
What could be the "unique" feature of this game? We don't want a wipeout clone. ;)
When I'm having planning issues, what would be the feature(s) to drop out?


I hereby invite you to think about this for a bit. Consider this a brainstorm thread for my IGF entry. I really need all your idea's. The more the better! ;D

Thanks a bunch!

[NecroDOME]

First of all GOOD LUCK!!

Random thoughts...


# What kind of role should combat get in this game?
# Also, what kind of role should racing get in this game?
If racing is the key feature:
- Pre-fixed not-that-strong weapons (minigun and maybe some rockets)
- Fast pace raing

If Weapons it the key feature
- Powerful weapons via pick-up
- Slower racing

(also possible to balance)

Easy to learn, hard to master: Start with a slow vehicle, then make it faster as the game progresses.

For the tracks I would say you did a nice job with the last track of your compo entry (if I remember correctly), so keep up that quality. You can also check out ballistics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpZUrh7EDZc).


For example, I don't want 10 different weapons and 8 different vehicles to race with.
Upgrades, easy to code, hard to unlock :)

[WILL]

Hey I guess I'll do my thing and throw in a few different ideas around for you to work with.

- Instead of throwing out the coins, why not use them by allowing players in single player mode to purchase upgrades and other special items to their ship.

- you could also allow a story mode kinda like Punch Out where you are in a 'big race' and you have alien opponents who trash talk you and you're trying to win it as a 'rookie' tube racer?

- as for weapons... here are some ideas that are different from what you've probably seen in most popular ones...

* chain link: the next vehicle in front of your is connected with an electrical arch link which will influence each other if you are moving apart (if he hits a speed boost it'll pull you too) and if you move closer it'll just help you catch up quickly.

* deflection field: any cars hit you, they 'bounce' off more so then they would normally. it also has the negative effect if you hit a barrier you'll bounce off it in a similar fashion.

* black hole/time warp: you drop a black hole or warp gate which will draw in any vehicles that drive into or close enough into it. passing by it close will pull you towards it. and if you are taken in by it, it'll close behind you and then it'll open back up and spit you out on the track a short time later (0.5 - 2 secs) in almost the same spot causing you to lose time and your placing in your race.

* out of phase device: when activated it'll put your car slightly out of phase allowing you to pass safely through all barriers and vehicles on the track. when you pop back in phase.

* remote control sticky bomb: you can shoot a sticky bomb which will attach to track/barrier or another vehicle. you can then activate it at any time for best possible advantage in the race.

* short circuit mites: you spill out the back a whole handful of small devices that will each electrically zap any vehicles that pass near it. each device zapping will reduce a car's speed by 5%-ish...

- As for vehicle features and special items. you can put in the standard activated speed boosts, time limited shields, auto-pilot, and all the other standard weapon types. you may even have counter-measure objects that you collect and activate independently of the weapon collection/activation system. and as long as you have countermeasures for specific attacks (ie the sticky-bombs, speed sapping devices, etc) you can protect yourself from the negative effects of them.

You could also lock future tracks and circuits until they complete previous ones. Add in LAN/WAN multi-player and tournament play. Other mode you could also try is head-to-head racing, time trials, download recorded ghost races...

Personally I think the only way to avoid making it just another Wipeout HD/F-Zero/Mario Kart/Pacman World Rally/Crash Bandicoot Racing/Sega Allstars Racing/Mod Racers type of clone is to do something different like that story mode or make it like Scorched Earth (you but weapons and upgrades for future races) ...OR... make it a big MMO or tournament style where you have several tracks and overall stats and seasons are recorded and you challenge other racers continuously... have champions and circuit cup holders, etc... make new circuit packs down the road...

[chronozphere]

Hi all,

I'm bumping this thread because I believe there are still plenty good ideas floating around in this community. ;)



If racing is the key feature:
- Pre-fixed not-that-strong weapons (minigun and maybe some rockets)
- Fast pace raing

If Weapons it the key feature
- Powerful weapons via pick-up
- Slower racing


Thanks, that's a good way to balance everything. I think I will go for a combination of both. Racing will be more important than combat. However, it shouldn't be all about speed. Weapons need their place.

@WILL: Hey man, I appreciate your feedback. However, a lot of your ideas require me to do a lot of extra work. Purchasing weapons and upgrades requires me to keep track of a lot of information for each player. A story mode needs extra content and IMHO would distract a bit from the actual game. At the end you mention "make it a big MMO". No offense, but do you have a clue how much work that is? These things aren't exactly: "Keep it small, keep it simple". :)

Yes, I want my game to be different from Whipeout, but I believe this can be done in a more subtle way.

To make things more clear, this will be a quick and fun game. After player A has beaten player B, they'll both have a laugh, have a drink, that's it. No ranks, stats, levels etc (Maybe one highscore table though). ;)

I see you have some neat weapon ideas. Some of them aren't even that hard to program. However, keep in mind that I also need the AI to use them. Also, I will use just a few weapons. I have to pick them carefully. The deflection field sounds like a good idea to me. :)


The most important problem I have is that I don't want a single player to race at 1st place all the time. I need to introduce ways so that the racers in the back can catch up with the rest. Here are some of my issues:

> If all vehicles become separated, it will become an ordinary racing game because the weapons can only be used in a small range. If you were racing at 3rd place, what kind of tactics could you use to become the first?

> Should all players start at roughly the same place on the track, or should the spawn points be separated from eachother?

> What happens when a player get shot and dies? Will he be able to respawn and get back in the game? how?

I want to make sure that each player will have enough chances to win the game. There should be plenty of battles and opportunities for everyone.

Does anyone have an idea to achieve this kind of balance?

Any other ideas are also welcome. :)

Thanks

[User137]

I have some crazy ideas for racing game in general:
- Pitstop: Makes even the top player stop for a second. Something can go wrong, or maybe someone "accidentally" left a mine on the entrance road. Maybe fuel preserving strategy was less efficient than opponents, starting with heavy vehicle makes start slow but you can drive more laps than others possibly on a clear way.
- If it's somewhat scifi game (well this rule applies in current formula 1 too), there can be somekind of trail, a flow of air or some whirl of energy left behind vehicle boosting those that come behind to move faster. Relating to cars its propably called "suction".
- Tight corners that make skill and memory matter. Person driving first has to do all the work spotting the corners and going the correct driving lane. He is also more prone to going too fast, making errors and even crash. Those coming behind can respond to one he is following, seeing a path that is more optimal and passing by when confident.

[chronozphere]

Thanks for the reply. :D

> The pitstop idea is interesting. I was thinking of doing something like that. My game will have powerups, one of which is a repair powerup. I can make the car slow down for a couple of seconds once a racer picks up one of these. Still, the player can dodge the powerup to avoid the nasty slowdown. However, it may be hard to do, depending on where the powerup is placed.

> The game is a bit sci-fi (like Whipeout). The suction idea is kinda neat. However, It might be hard to implement it properly. I could spawn a number of invisible spheres. If another vehicle intersects one of these spheres, it's friction force of the air will be reduced/removed.

> The racetrack itsself will contain corners (not too tight though) and obstacles. I will try to make the steering of vehicles easy, so that if you are focussed, you can race the track at reasonable speed. However, it must still be a challenge. :)

Thanks a lot for these ideas. Anyone else?

[paul_nicholls]

Hi Nathan,
I'm not sure if Wipeout has 360 degree race tracks (tubes), and I hadn't gotten around to playing your 1st version of Tube Runner :-[ but what about you being able to do 360 degree moves as you are moving along the tube racetracks?

This would be neat, and you could end up going 'upside down' compared to other vehicles in the tube and just race over the top of them!

cheers,
Paul

[WILL]

The up-side-down part is cool, but if you do this make sure that you don't restrict them to being upside down for too long unless you are planning on making that part REALLY hard (like an insane mode) unless you will perhaps be allowing it so you can go all the way around like in a spiral or something.

Doing a whole race up-side-down would be very hard. But it can work to add some sort of a *different* kind of racing challenge.