Drum pad anyone?

[chronozphere]

Hey people,

I'd like to dive into audio a bit more. I've got propellerhead Reason installed and I also have a MIDI keyboard. However, I feel like trying something different; drum pads:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdLKF5Ovnc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdLKF5Ovnc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA1lZjFzgI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOIdsPXlP0I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwYrrCJaTwE&feature=related

I've been looking at a few models. The AKAI MPD24 and the M-Audio Trigger Finger in paticular. Anyone who knows more about these things?

[WILL]

Those are pretty neat. :)

You planning on creating a studio for your audio for your games?

Hope your background music is a little bit better than that fourth one though. :P

[chronozphere]

Maybe I get usefull music for my games. That'd be good. :)

But most importantly, this is just for fun. I think this would be an excellent way to get creative with sound and music. Just load some goofy samples and start tappin. :P

[WILL]

It's not a bad idea. Not every game needs a soundtrack from Hanz Zimmer. ;)

[AthenaOfDelphi]

As it happens, I've just bought an Akai MPD26, for use with Reason/Record and Cubase. It's pretty neat. I also have a stick playable 8 pad Alesis controller. My favourite so far is the Akai because it's smaller, has 16 pads and the programmable sliders and faders.

The MPD26 supports USB and MIDI, comes with a bunch of preconfigured setups for use with Reason, Cubase etc.

Other than that, I'd suggest you find you local tech music store and go and check them out. The Korg and Akai mini controllers are also supposed to be pretty good, but generally they are only 8 pads.

[WILL]

How much could these machines cost you?

[AthenaOfDelphi]

There are loads of different makes and models... my personal choices are normally Roland, Akai, Yamaha, Korg and Alesis. They are fairly good makes and won't (I'll actually say 'shouldn't') fall apart after a few hours beating, although I did have to repair a sensor cable in my Alesis drum pad (maybe I was hitting it too hard with my sticks).

The Akai devices:-

MPD26 - 16 MPC style drum pads + 6 faders + 6 rotary controls - About £129
LPD8 - Micro 8 drum pads - About £50
LPK25 - Micro 25 key keyboard - About £50
MPK25 - Small 25 key keyboard with 12 MPC drum pads and more - About £200
MPK49 - Standard 49 key keyboard with 12 MPC drum pads and more - More than the MPK25, less than the MPK61
MPK61 - Standard 61 key keyboard with 16 MPC drum pads and more - About £400

The Korg Devices:-

Korg Kontrol 49 - Standard 49 key keyboard with 16 drum pads - About £329

The software:-

Reason - About £240 - If you have a properly licensed previous version, the upgrade to 5 is about £80
Record - About £200
Reason+Record Duo - About £300

You can add Record for reason owners at a later stage if you want the extra functionality, for about £130.

Reason is the almighty software synth. Record is Propellerheads DAW and is capable of easy audio recording and manipulation, plus it has a much better master mixer. On it's own, record doesn't have all the synths of Reason, but if you own both, you can use them all in it.

My little 'studio' consists of the following:-

Roland Alpha Juno 2 - 6 DCO synth, one of the last of the classic Osc+Filter synths - Circa. 1986
Roland D110 - Rackmount version of the MT-32 LA synthesis module - 8 channel multi-timbral+rythm - Circa. 1988
Roland XV-5080 - 32 channel multi-timbral synth + House and Techno expansions - Circa. 2000
MOTU Midi 128 Express - USB MIDI interface (8 in + 8 out)
Yamaha SW1000XG - PCI Sound Card - 32 channel multi-timbral MIDI synth + 6 wave outs + 2 wave ins (1 line, 1 loopback) + a whole raft of effects - Circa. 1996
Behringer RX1602 - Rack mixer for pulling the synths together
Mackie CFX16 mk ii -16 channel (12 mono, 2 stereo) mixer
Electric guitar - Cheap and cheerful beginner electric guiter
Korg AX1500G - Multieffects pedal for my guitar
Alesis Performance Pad - 8 pads, 50 preset kits, 50 user kits, programmable sequences, 233 drum sounds
Akai MPD26 - 16 way drum pad + 6 faders + 6 rotary controls
Preh MCI84 - 84 key programmable keyboard - Programmed up to be a control surface for Cubase

Software wise:-

Cubase 5 - My personal favourite DAW, great MIDI capabilities, some fine VSTs. Has pretty much everything I would ever need... I think :-)

Zebra 2.5 - Superb, highly programmable software synth (VST) - http://www.u-he.com/
Reason 5 - Amazing software synth from Propellerheads - http://www.propellerheads.se
Record 1.5 - DAW from Propellerheads

Depending on what I'm doing, I'll either just use Reason and Record, or if I need MIDI capabilities to get at my hardware synths, I'll use Cubase and access Reason and Record through the 'Rewire' interface. With what I have, I would say I can do almost anything, although I am looking to make one or two changes.

The Yamaha SW1000XG is old... very old (as I recall, it can with drivers for NT4). If I put the card under severe load, I get BSODs. The drivers aren't supported and they aren't multi-threaded, which I believe is holding back Cubase. I'm looking to replace it with a decent audio interface.... by decent I mean 8 in/8 out minimum... and a Yamaha MU128 or MU200 which are the hardware brick versions of the SW1000XG synth engine.

I've just recently started using Reason, Record and the VST synths in Cubase a lot more, to destress and wind down, and they are amazing. If you are on a tight budget and you want to make music for games, with no vocals, I would go for Reason and get a decent controller, something like the MPK61 which has a bit of everything. There are other options depending on your budget. The best thing to do, is find a local dealer with a store and go and talk to them, try things out (I like this approach because if I walk into a store and I can figure out the key functions in a few minutes, I know I'm not going to have to spend the next 12 months reading the user manual). But make sure you're clued up about what the hardware does before hand (read the manfacturers sites etc), because I have had peeps try and sell me stuff based on things it doesn't do.

My one real piece of advice... if you are setting up a little studio... pick a place where you have room to leave it setup and connected. My rig is in my bedroom at my parents place, which is where I stay for the majority of the year as I work near them. The problem is, my room is the box room and I don't have the space to leave everything setup, so when I want to play I first have to grab my Alpha, get it connected up, grab the MPD26, connect it, etc. etc. etc. Nine times out of ten, by that time, the creative spark has gone and I'm left with having to pack it all away again for a measily 10 minute bang on Reason.

[chronozphere]

Wow Athena, You've got yourself a nice setup there. :D

This is what Ive got:
> A borrowed electric guitar for beginners
> A Roland Cube X20 aplifier (has some nice effects build in)
> A VERY nice steel string semi-acoustic guitar + amplifier, together worth a 1000 euro's. (Actually, these are my dad's but he doesn't use them :D )
> A couple of old spanish accoustic guitars (not mine either but I can use em).
> Propellerhead Reason 4 (yeah.. torrentz.. need to get 5 soon).
> A 61 Key MIDI keyboard (no additional knobs) + simple midi-interface cable
> A lovely Asus Xonar DS soundcard

This is what I like to achieve:

> Record my guitar on my PC. I need a good audio/midi interface and a mic for the accoustic guitar. Not sure if I can use the effects of my Roland Cube X20 here.
> Replace my 61 Key keyboard by something smaller. Perhaps a 25 Key one with a nice set of extra knobs for my parameters.
I'm not really a great piano player (a guitar player I am). I rather twiddle with a stack of effects. I was thinking about the M-Audio Oxygen 25.
> Connect a nice drum controller to my setup. I'd like to have a 4x4 drumpad because that nicely matches with the Kong drum designer in Reason 5. I was considering the M-Audio finger trigger, AKAI MPD24 and the Korg Pad Kontroll.
> Either the keyboard or the drum controller should have transport controls. Makes live a bit easier I guess.

A nice set of wishes, I know. It's gonna cost me a hell lot to make everything work. Apparently, you have quite some experience with setting up your studio so I've got some questions:

> What's better? Connecting multiple devices through USB or having one midi/audio interface that is connected to all your recording devices? I'd like to have one keyboard, a drumpad and a mic/guitar connected at the same time.
> What kind of midi/audio interface would be best for me?
> What kind of keyboard do you recommend?
> Is the MPD26 worth the extra +/- 50 euro's compared to the MPD24?

Space is a bit of a problem here. However, If I get rid of my 61 Key keyboard, I'll have space for a "25 Key" one and a drum controller. I can hang my guitar to the wall. Probably need space for one extra device (midi/audio interface, mixer or pre-amp).

Looking forward to your reply. :)

[AthenaOfDelphi]

If you got yourself an Akai MPK61, you'd have a 61 key keyboard with 16 pads and a bunch of controllers. Korg also do a 61 key version of the Korg Kontrol keyboards... again, they have 16 pads.

The difference between the MPD24 and the MPD26 is (as far as I can tell):-

MPD24 has 8 rotary encoders - MPD26 has 6
MPD24 does not have 'Repeat' function - MPD26 has repeat function (this allows you to tap in a tempo and then press the repeat button... you can pick a repeat speed and then when you hold down a pad, it plays it repeatedly at the given speed taking into account the pressure you're applying)

That's about the only differences I can see... so, if you don't want that functionality, go for the MPD24 and get 2 extra rotary encoders.

As I said, the only reason I didn't go for something like the Akai MPK61 or the Korg Kontrol 49 is the fact I have a MIDI keyboard already in the form of my Alpha Juno 2. So rather than pay £400, I chose to pay £130 for the MPD26 and just get what I needed.

As for Audio/MIDI interface... I obviously have a bunch of MIDI gear so I bought the 8 way MIDI interface (for full use of all my MIDI gear I need 42 MIDI output channels + 4 MIDI input channels). If you don't need lots of MIDI, you could consider something like the MOTU UltraLite mk3 Hybrid. This has a bunch of audio in's and out's and a single MIDI interface (16 channels). Or... if you fancy spending some cash, the 828 mk 3 firewire interface. That seems really nice. I can't comment too much about pro audio interfaces as I don't have one, but there are loads of options. There are some good internal cards that would do what you want, but for things like this, I'm a firm believer in buying the best you can afford.

Keyboard choice... it's a personal thing... find a local dealer with a store, go down and try them out. The one overriding thing I'm finding is that even though these things are costing the same as they did say 10-20 years ago... the build quality of the units you buy today just doesn't seem as good.... my Alpha has a metal chasis... most of the stuff you buy today has never seen metal. But get yourself to a local dealer and try a few out.

If I had the cash, I'd probably buy an Akai MPK88 which is 88 keys with a piano weighted action. You just can't beat playing a piano.

Setup questions... well, if the devices have USB interfaces, I'd be inclined to use them. MIDI operates at something like 38400 baud... compare that to the crazy speeds of USB 2. Don't dasiy chain too much. Thats why I bought a fat MIDI interface. The more daisy chaining you do, the more delay you add to the signals and it can become obvious. The same is true however of USB. You're not supposed to have hub linked to hub linked to hub etc. If you've not got enough ports, get yourself two USB hubs... one for the music gear and one for everything else. Things like audio interfaces... I would connect them directly to the USB on the motherboard rather than through a hub as you want to do everything you can to reduce latency.

Any more questions/clarity... post away :-)