Delphi Upgrade Order Fail

[Murmandamus]

So, after all my hemming and hawing over the Delphi Starter Edition, I decide to go ahead and just take advantage of the RAD Studio XE Professional Upgrade under the May 31 amnesty due to an upcoming big project for which I just did a (successful, I might add) presentation to a customer. I had pretty much decided to go ahead and splurge for it for a number of reasons, but I needed a clincher, and this project was it.

So, I dig up my "final notice of upgrade offer email", click the link, and add the upgrade to the cart for $499 plus the $35 "media kit" (why I have to pay more for that I don't know, but that's only a minor quibble). As I am digging out my credit card, I get hit with a bombshell: the total price was NOT $534, as I expected, but $953!

Surely I must have clicked something twice or other, so I cleared the cart and tried again. Nope, still $953. Then I see it:

1 Support and Maintenance for RAD Studio XE $419.00

So I go "Okay.. WTF is that?". After doing a couple of unsuccessful searches on the Embarcadero site, Google finds the RAD Studio XE FAQ page for me where I find this little gem:

"What is Support and Maintenance for RAD Studio?

Support and Maintenance can be purchased at the time you purchase your RAD Studio product or upgrade. The support and maintenance agreement gives you a year of upgrades (including major and minor upgrades) and a specified number of support incidents. See the Support dropdown menu item of our web site for additional information.

Why is it important to buy Support and Maintenance for RAD Studio?

The Delphi Prism portion of RAD Studio may have more frequent feature upgrades than the rest of RAD Studio. Only users with active maintenance agreements have access to the new feature upgrades."

Immediately my quizzical confusion turns to consternation, then shortly after to anger as the realization of what was happening hit me.

I'm buying a product with no support or upgrades/updates, UNLESS I basically pay almost double the price I was told I had to pay from the product screen. They slip this little dealie in on the order page without ANY warning.

So, here I am, sitting here with my credit card out, a partly-filled order, on the last night of the special deal trying to decide if my purchase is even worth bothering to continue.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am all for a company getting properly paid for support, and I know new shinies cost money to add. THAT SAID, almost everyone in the world+dog that makes development tools INCLUDES that in the price, usually for at least the first year. Support incidents are included. Bugfix updates are included, minor (and even major new features), like the 64-bit compiler, which don't end up as "next year's version" are included. So what I am apparently paying for with that $499(-cum-$899) price are some bits to put on my hard drive for twiddling. That's all.

..and Embarcadero wonders why their market share is dwindling, even to the point of having to constantly spam old customers with upgrade offers to drive sales, then pull the ol' bait-and-switch "would you like the extended warranty with that, sir?" Best Buy Guy tactic.

I almost fell for it. Almost.

[paul_nicholls]

Nasty! What a trick :(

cheers,
Paul

[de_jean_7777]

Wow, that's deceptive. They charge you for bugfixes and upgrades to their product. Even Microsoft gives you free updates for Visual Studio (and I don't think it's time limited). Embarcadero, I am disappoint.

[vgo]

Support and Maintenance for RAD Studio XE = you pay for a yearly subscription and get the new Delphi (XE, XE2, Delphi 2358 etc.) versions automatically for the subscription price, I've had it since 2007 and it's cheaper than buying each version separately.

The media kit is the DVD/CD-ROM, but why would you need that?

[Murmandamus]

Subscriptions, in theory, are fine AFTER THE FIRST YEAR. It is stupid to pay full price for a product and not get ANY updates/upgrades (let alone support) for it for the first year without ALSO buying the subscription. Personally, I don't care for subscriptions, as I am usually happy with a product for several versions (most "new features" are little more than hash marks on the wheels just to make last year's model look obsolete). However, important updates and support shouldn't be part of any ADDITIONAL subscription when you're buying the product; it should be part of the purchase price. Period.

Why would I need the media kit? Ever heard of backups? Useful things, those. No, burning my own doesn't count because burned discs have shelf lives MUCH shorter than pressed discs; nature of the beast.

I really really miss the days of the No-Nonsense License Agreement and the No-Nonsense Development Tool Company. :(

[Murmandamus]

I should point out that not even the market leader in development tools, Microsoft, with its Visual Studio 2010 Professional product, has this problem. They *DO* have extra support options and higher-tier MSDN access, but the basic tool price (which, I might add, is $100 lower than Embarcadero's) includes support, patches, updates, and even major upgrades at no extra cost, as long as they are within the same SKU.

[chronozphere]

I'm also quite dissappointed in Embarcadero. To me it seems that they try to get as much money from their products as they can, without considering the market and the popularity of their products. If Delphi Starter was only $100 and without the awfull revenue-limitation, alot more people would use it (including me). I feel that there are plenty of companies who are offering the basic version of their product for free (or for a very low price) to attract new developers. Also, doubling to price for support is just ridiculous!

At this point, I think most hobbyists use other ways to get their copy of Delphi or just use lazarus.

[farcodev]

Chronozphere you take the point, i personnally don't think Embarcadero will last long like that yet.

Since the times people says that Delphi is dead, it seems to be of a slow and painful death.

Hopefully there's FPC/Lazarus yet, but after that the alternative is C#, and... well .. i prefer to stop programming when this day will come.

But not yet, not yet... let suffering some more

for XE2 , embarcadero is better to move it's ass or it will weight the consequences.

[vgo]

Subscriptions, in theory, are fine AFTER THE FIRST YEAR. It is stupid to pay full price for a product and not get ANY updates/upgrades (let alone support) for it for the first year without ALSO buying the subscription. Personally, I don't care for subscriptions, as I am usually happy with a product for several versions (most "new features" are little more than hash marks on the wheels just to make last year's model look obsolete). However, important updates and support shouldn't be part of any ADDITIONAL subscription when you're buying the product; it should be part of the purchase price. Period.

You don't need the subscription to get patches for the version you use, BUT Embarcadero won't release new patches for the old versions any more when a new one is out. I'd recommend waiting until the next version before buying it, that way you'll get FREE updates for about a year. If you buy Delphi XE now you won't get any patches for it because Embarcadero is already working on the next version which will be released on sep/oct, Delphi XE2 will be the biggest release yet made by Embarcadero.

Personally I don't have any problem paying €260 a year to get latest version when it's available.



Why would I need the media kit? Ever heard of backups? Useful things, those. No, burning my own doesn't count because burned discs have shelf lives MUCH shorter than pressed discs; nature of the beast.

You can download the installer from Embarcadero as many times as you want, you have access to all the Delphi versions and their patches that you have a license for. For example I can download D7, D2007 etc. and any of their patches any time from EDN in My Account / My registered products.

[Murmandamus]

You don't need the subscription to get patches for the version you use

I asked my account rep that question and he said they were available, but couldn't tell me how, since, according to the website, you do have to have the subscription to access ANY updates. It doesn't differentiate between "patches" updates and other kinds of updates.


BUT Embarcadero won't release new patches for the old versions any more when a new one is out. I'd recommend waiting until the next version before buying it, that way you'll get FREE updates for about a year. If you buy Delphi XE now you won't get any patches for it because Embarcadero is already working on the next version which will be released on sep/oct, Delphi XE2 will be the biggest release yet made by Embarcadero.

That's even worse. If bugs are found in the product, there should be fixes for it within a reasonable product lifetime, regardless of whether or not there are newer versions available.


Personally I don't have any problem paying €260 a year to get latest version when it's available.

Sure, like I said, AFTER the first year. If I buy XE a few months before XE2 comes out, that should be included. Lots of companies give you "short-cycle" upgrades for free or very cheap. It also should be an opt-in thing, not automatically dumped into your cart without any warning. If I am to buy a subscription, I need to know that there is value in it; that every year they add something major to the product which has value to me to justify the cost.


You can download the installer from Embarcadero as many times as you want, you have access to all the Delphi versions and their patches that you have a license for. For example I can download D7, D2007 etc. and any of their patches any time from EDN in My Account / My registered products.

Well, this may be a personal thing, but I have had some rather bad luck with download availability of products/updates from this company in the past, with excuses like "we can't find that anymore, sorry". As a result, I'll take the physical media, thanks.

[WILL]

I thoiught this was an interesting topic so I shared this thread on Facebook. Check out the Delphi Developer group (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_137012246341854) on Facebook.

[Murmandamus]

Sorry, I don't do Farcebook. 8)

[vgo]

Me neither! ;)

[vgo]

I asked my account rep that question and he said they were available, but couldn't tell me how, since, according to the website, you do have to have the subscription to access ANY updates. It doesn't differentiate between "patches" updates and other kinds of updates.


Guess they got the patches/upgrades mixed up then. Patches have always been free and I haven't heard anything about changing it anytime soon.



That's even worse. If bugs are found in the product, there should be fixes for it within a reasonable product lifetime, regardless of whether or not there are newer versions available.

That's how they've always done, new version out = support for old versions ends. Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero are probably just too small company to maintain many versions, especially when there's big changes between versions that make backporting patches difficult. In theory D2009, D2010 and DXE could have been compatible for patches but there's been a lot of changes preparing for the next big update.

[WILL]

Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero
Now this is just silly. It's Embarcadero and only Embarcadero now. :)

[Murmandamus]

Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero are probably just too small company to maintain many versions, especially when there's big changes between versions that make backporting patches difficult. In theory D2009, D2010 and DXE could have been compatible for patches but there's been a lot of changes preparing for the next big update.

With these kinds of policies, they are going to stay a small company, too.

There is no reason why they can't backport a vast majority of bugfixes, unless they are doing something really dumb, like not using version control or SCM methodologies. I'm a very small shop and I use those. As you say, the last few versions are very similar, so it should be trivial to backport bugfixes, unless the feature/component being fixed simply doesn't exist in the previous version.

It really gets old quick having to always buy the latest and greatest version just to get around a stupid compiler or IDE bug. "We're sorry that your car stalls out in traffic; but if you buy this year's model, it won't happen anymore!". Sales-oriented support -- gotta love it.

[Murmandamus]

Now this is just silly. It's Embarcadero and only Embarcadero now. :)

Well, if you are referring to them only in the present tense, then sure. However, for historical references, it makes sense to distinguish between the various iterations of the company that has owned the Delphi product, not only to assign proper praise, but also to assign proper blame. Even still, you have to admit that the transitions between the various names/companies have been quite fuzzy. I think that was intentional to a degree, with Embarcadero wanting to ride whatever remaining wave of popularity Borland/Codegear had before the transition.

[vgo]

Now this is just silly. It's Embarcadero and only Embarcadero now. :)

Yes I know, but the policies haven't changed. I own every Delphi version and no matter which company has owned the brand in the past the update policy has been the same: new version out = no more patches for the old one.