Best engine for me? [Archive] - Pascal Game Development

Nindustries

11-07-2011, 12:22 PM

Hello there!

I'm completely new to game programming, and I'll be choosing my engine.
I'm planning on creating a thirth-person RPG game in RAD Studio XE.
( so that you look from above, sorta)

Could you tell me what the best engine for me is at the moment?
A lot of documentation is preferred ofcourse.

Greetings & thank you

code_glitch

11-07-2011, 03:27 PM

How much previous programming experience do you have? As an all rounder, I might check out SDL...

Nindustries

11-07-2011, 04:38 PM

Well, I have experience with databases, networking, & basic applications in Turbo Pascal:-X

Nindustries

11-07-2011, 04:43 PM

Well, I have experience in overall Turbo Pascal programming.
But not yet in SDL ;-)

Networking, data processing & general applications.

Greetings

code_glitch

11-07-2011, 06:24 PM

SDL then would, from what I have seen, be your best bet at getting started in graphics programming. If I recall, http://www.freepascal-meets-sdl.net/ has a lot of good tutorials in pascal with instructions to set it all up and get underway. When I was learning off those, I only encountered one or two hitches (from my idiocy att typing :D) but otherwise some great tuts. I would say, start off with that and when you get to grips more with graphics and pascal perhaps check out OpenGl/ZenGl.

Oh, sorry for not saying earlier, but welcome to the forums.

WILL

11-07-2011, 09:52 PM

Hi and welcome to PGD! :)

I'm glad to see that you want to take your new found programming skills and learn to make games. I would of course recommend SDL if you have basic knowledge of the 'Classic Pascal' language. However don't start with an overly ambitious project. (Disappointed is the over-anxious new guy who tried to make the next WoW as his first game.)

What I tell everyone new to programming games is start with something simple to learn the structure of a game first. For example pong or Snake/Tron or something that you'd only complete in your dreams. And not know it until you learned how these games are made in the first place.

There is a lot to learn even in some of the most mediocre game genre let alone RPGs, MMOs, RTS games, etc...

You first game programs should wow you so much as they give you a sense of accomplishment of learning a new way to program. This is what you should stive for first.

On graphics, you'll want to start with SDL and not even look at OpenGL until you have fully understood 2D graphics first. Sure you can skip ahead, but you'll only confuse yourself without the benefit of learning anything from it.

I'd recommend the Free Pascal meets SDL website as well, but I'd also recommend the Pascal Programming for Schools too. They have some great resources including a Game Development section/tutorial that has example games and tutorials on how to get started.

Good luck on your starting out in games! But please please please, start small. (Tron, Pong, Arkanoid, Snake, etc) This is how we all learned, but doing small projects and moving on to slightly bigger each step.

azrael11

12-07-2011, 03:33 AM

Good luck on your starting out in games! But please please please, start small. (Tron, Pong, Arkanoid, Snake, etc) This is how we all learned, but doing small projects and moving on to slightly bigger each step.

Truly this is the best advise ... don't rush... small steps to success...
Focus to a small project first... Create the diagram program in your mind and in paper... start coding...
Good Luck...

Nindustries

12-07-2011, 04:32 PM

Thank you all for your valuable replie ;)
Will surely take in mind that I need to start small.

Website seems good to work with, altough the blue color hurts my eyes :o

Greetings & thanks in advance,
Nindustries

Nindustries

12-07-2011, 05:00 PM

Having some serious problems compiling SDL.pas tough :-X

LoPiTaL

12-07-2011, 06:43 PM

Hi all.
I am also new on graphics programming. I have always dreamed on making a 3D game, and now I have started to develop a very simple game: just an scenario of boxes, and a guy that just moves around with collisions. Pretty easy, with no textures, little lighting, etc... but in a future (years) I want to make a persistent world, so the project will grow (step by step, I have got this clear).

About the engine, I have started using GLScene. It is really easy to use, it is object-oriented, and you don't need to know commads as GL_XXXX or SDL_XXX. I have been surprised that none of you have recommended this engine as a point of start. Can I ask why? Have I done a bad choice?
What are the advantages / disadvantages of SDL (or ZenGL) against GLScene?

Best regards,
LoPiTaL

Ñuño Martínez

15-07-2011, 07:32 AM

Truly this is the best advise ... don't rush... small steps to success...
Focus to a small project first... Create the diagram program in your mind and in paper... start coding...
Good Luck... Paper and pen are the best tools for computer development. Better than any computer-aid design tool, IDE or anyelse, indeed.

Welcome and good luck. :)

Nindustries

15-07-2011, 09:32 AM

Maybe it's me, but I can't seem to get SDL working...
How do I add SDL to RAD STUDIO XE? :o

WILL

15-07-2011, 03:02 PM

Maybe it's me, but I can't seem to get SDL working...
How do I add SDL to RAD STUDIO XE? :o
We are going to need more details to help you. We know that you are using Delphi XE, but what SDL headers are you using? JEDI-SDL or another packaged set of SDL headers?

JEDI-SDL unfortunately has the disadvantage of needing extra code added to it's list of supported compilers to work. Something that needs to be fixed in a rewrite.

WILL

15-07-2011, 03:16 PM

About the engine, I have started using GLScene. It is really easy to use, it is object-oriented, and you don't need to know commads as GL_XXXX or SDL_XXX. I have been surprised that none of you have recommended this engine as a point of start. Can I ask why? Have I done a bad choice?
What are the advantages / disadvantages of SDL (or ZenGL) against GLScene?
Hello LoPiTaL and welcome to PGD! :)

I think GLScene is a pretty good engine and it does seem to make some aspects of game development easy, however I still say it's not the best way to start. I say this simply because it does nothing to teach you about the basics of writing a game. You may not be new to a lot of the concepts that go into making a game, but most that come into game programming are and it helps to go through the steps or lessons in making some of the classic games before moving onto something 3D where there is so much material it distracts from the basics. How it's structured, how objects collide and how to make them interact the way you need.

Graphics and Physics Engines are an advanced state of a library, they take away much of the work that needs to go into the coding of many of the aspects of the graphics and the physics. This is great if you already have learned how this all works, but if you truly want to learn to become a game programmer, be able to code the missing pieces when something doesn't work right or even write your own, you need to learn the basics before you try learning how to do everything else.

You may have fun playing with GLScene and tinkering with it, but if you want to do something outside of what that specific engine can do, you may have to go much farther back than you would like just to do that.

All that said, if you are having fun playing with GLScene and are able to make some use out of it, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be important to go back and learn the proper steps of game programming if you want to make a proper game and know how to go about it the right way. Especially if you want to continue making games for the long run...

azrael11

15-07-2011, 07:47 PM

azrael11

15-07-2011, 07:49 PM

Will how about making a Page For All the newcomers to pascal community showing them (point them) pages,tips,engines,with simple advises from the makers of the engines... Just an Idea...

pstudio

15-07-2011, 08:17 PM

Hello LoPiTaL and welcome to PGD! :)

I think GLScene is a pretty good engine and it does seem to make some aspects of game development easy, however I still say it's not the best way to start. I say this simply because it does nothing to teach you about the basics of writing a game. You may not be new to a lot of the concepts that go into making a game, but most that come into game programming are and it helps to go through the steps or lessons in making some of the classic games before moving onto something 3D where there is so much material it distracts from the basics. How it's structured, how objects collide and how to make them interact the way you need.

Graphics and Physics Engines are an advanced state of a library, they take away much of the work that needs to go into the coding of many of the aspects of the graphics and the physics. This is great if you already have learned how this all works, but if you truly want to learn to become a game programmer, be able to code the missing pieces when something doesn't work right or even write your own, you need to learn the basics before you try learning how to do everything else.

You may have fun playing with GLScene and tinkering with it, but if you want to do something outside of what that specific engine can do, you may have to go much farther back than you would like just to do that.

All that said, if you are having fun playing with GLScene and are able to make some use out of it, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be important to go back and learn the proper steps of game programming if you want to make a proper game and know how to go about it the right way. Especially if you want to continue making games for the long run...

I think this could be an interesting discussion. Would you recommend a new aspiring game developer to start out with a low level or high level framework? You're for the low level. Let the programmer learn how all the aspects of a game work.

But why not recommend the other way? Give him a library and some instructions and he'll be able to make a Pacman clone in a day or so. As new to the field it must be encouraging to quickly get some results. In this first stage they will learn about game mechanics and how a game functions on a high level. Presumably the library they're using has been made by a veteran game developer (team) so they'll learn a sensible way to structure a game. They'll learn a lot on game development and be able to have something to show for it.

At some point they can then choose to delve into further low level stuff. Figure out to open your own window with hardware accelerated graphics, load textures and start rendering primitives. Their experience from the library they started out with will give them an idea about how to organize their low level stuff. And during this low level phase they don't have to worry about things like how to implement game mechanics as well because they already master that part.

Though I'm not sure which library I would recommend I would probably recommend a higher level one. Something where the programmer can open a hardware accelerated window and make a sprite move in four directions with no more than 50 lines of code.

farcodev

16-07-2011, 02:16 PM

with Allegro.pas for example ;)

WILL

16-07-2011, 07:44 PM

One of the other major things with picking up any new library or engine is documentation. Some of the developers of these like to hope that all you need to know is the list of functions, but sadly this is not so. If there is insufficient documentation, it's not a very good starter library, let alone an easy library to get to know how to use it well.

First and foremost a game library or game engine will live and die by it's documentation.Especially all those that are supposed to be all-encompassing. I'd have to warn away from libraries and engines that don't have proper documentation, especially for someone new.