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Thread: Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

  1. #11

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    I think Pascal is the best programming language that I have ever used, but it is severely backtalked by C lobbyists. They have been lying about it for years. In reality, it has only one severe drawback: portability. That's because Borland refused to make their dialect conform with standards. But today we have FPC, cross-platform and modern!

    For a long time, using Pascal was a fantastic competitive advantage for me, it made me so much faster than my C-using competitors. In recent years, the advantage is smaller since Pascal support has been dropped just about everywhere, my old professional tools are discontinued, but I still hope to get back on track with Free Pascal.

    Switching to C/C++ doesn't seem like a good move to me. Then I would have no advantage against the rest of the crowd, nothing that can make me better except hard work. Pascal makes my code more readable, easier to maintain, faster to write, and executes on par with C. If it is a small language, no problem. Its qualities can be our little secret.

    Concerning teaching, today's habit of using C/Java is plain madness. We should not iron in a single solution in the students, we should widen their scope with alternatives. pascal is a great language for teaching as for anything else, but let them start with C and try Pascal later. They just might get the point better in that order. :roll:

  2. #12

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Good thing i don't have to promote anything - they've been using pascal for teaching for more than 10 years now, yay! (probably even more, cause i don't know when it was started actually ) First we were taught with Turbo Pascal (i fall into that category), but around 2002-2003 they've switched to freepascal (i mean country-wide, not just my school). There is even some sort of IDE developed to avoid using the default console editor :shock:
    In universities they're kind of undecided though.. When i first came they've just switched from teaching pascal to c++/java hybrid, but apart from those classes, one can write his projects in almost anything he wants

  3. #13

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by fragle
    When i first came they've just switched from teaching pascal to c++/java hybrid, but apart from those classes, one can write his projects in almost anything he wants
    I teach computer graphics, and I have, officially, the same principle for project work, but the students hardly dares to believe it. They even ask whether they can use C++ classes (which the C labs don't). When a student humbly asks if he/she can use Delphi, despite the fact that the labs are Java and C, I more than approve. I try to give them a hint about my opinion - use what makes them productive, and why shouldn't they use the best if they are among those who understand it?

    But the computer support is a problem. I had a student this winter who had only used Turbo Pascal. Fine, I said, then he should be happy with FPC, right? Sure... if the support hadn't refused to install it. :x

  4. #14
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Ah... Pascal advocates after my own heart.

    Well it's great to hear that in some parts of the world things are almost done right.

    Great info on FPS, fragle! I'll have to post this one in the news this weekend.

    Ingemar: What do you mean by 'the support had refused to install it'? Are we talking a person or the software?
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  5. #15

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by WILL
    Ingemar: What do you mean by 'the support had refused to install it'? Are we talking a person or the software?
    A person, the sysadm. I don't have rights to install anything, I must ask the computer support people, and he said that I had to be "very convincing" to make him do it. Of couse that means that he didn't want to. The same install took one minute on my own Linux computer. :roll:

    I suppose his refusal is due to the risk of messing up a RedHatEL installation by installing new software (and I have done that myself some time), but personally I think it is his job to handle. If RedHatEL isn't good enough, he should find a better distribution. (Any suggestions?)

  6. #16
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingemar
    (Any suggestions?)
    Give the guy a swift kick in the arse and tell him not to be lazy? :lol: Oh wait, maybe not what you meant huh?

    IMHO RedHat sucks the big one! I'm serious though. Feldora Core is the result of the RedHat company --which Linus worked for for a time, btw-- trying to be all commercial like Microsoft. Linux and Microsoft are not good combinations. Hence the mess that is RedHat. Sure it's stable, great... but it's like some half breed thing that it's quite with the GNU standard anymore.

    I recommend Debian, but thats me. It's like Slackware, but with a really dependable(the best out of all of them!) packaging system and it conforms to ALL the Linux standards. Plus it does a rather good job of keeping up to date with all the major things like Apache, PHP, mysql, gimp, kde, etc, etc...


    If he *needs* a reason to install it, tell him it's a part of your course material and it is *required* for you to use in your classes. If you can pull that off with the head of your department, then I think you're set.
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  7. #17

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingemar
    A person, the sysadm. I don't have rights to install anything, I must ask the computer support people, and he said that I had to be "very convincing" to make him do it. Of couse that means that he didn't want to. The same install took one minute on my own Linux computer. :roll:

    I suppose his refusal is due to the risk of messing up a RedHatEL installation by installing new software (and I have done that myself some time), but personally I think it is his job to handle. If RedHatEL isn't good enough, he should find a better distribution. (Any suggestions?)
    Yes, he can use our rpm without risk of messing up his distribution, since removing the rpm will remove all traces of fpc. It is a good opportunity to show one of the weapon facts of fpc: fpc programs do not depend on any libraries and are Linux distribution independent.

    Therefore our rpm works on any distribution and he does not need a specific Red Hat rpm. Such a feature should get make any Linux sysadmin curious

  8. #18

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by WILL
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingemar
    (Any suggestions?)
    Give the guy a swift kick in the arse and tell him not to be lazy? :lol: Oh wait, maybe not what you meant huh?
    No, but it sure feels like the right thing to do. :roll:
    IMHO RedHat sucks the big one! I'm serious though. Feldora Core is the result of the RedHat company --which Linus worked for for a time, btw-- trying to be all commercial like Microsoft. Linux and Microsoft are not good combinations. Hence the mess that is RedHat. Sure it's stable, great... but it's like some half breed thing that it's quite with the GNU standard anymore.
    I kind of agree. I don't feel I have the best dist. Whenever I need to install anything that is not in the official dist, I get version problems, have to dig up rpm's elsewhere, cross my fingers and install. No, it doesn't always work.
    I recommend Debian, but thats me. It's like Slackware, but with a really dependable(the best out of all of them!) packaging system and it conforms to ALL the Linux standards. Plus it does a rather good job of keeping up to date with all the major things like Apache, PHP, mysql, gimp, kde, etc, etc...
    I had two installations of Debian dying on me when running updates. X died when I updated the NVidia drivers. Bad luck? I don't know.

    BTW, I think we are off-topic now. Sorry about that.

  9. #19
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Well golden rule #1 of Linux... it it ain't broke, don't go trying to fix it.

    Hardware drivers for Linux in general can be a tricky thing. But Debian, as far as I know has gotten a lot better at this. Plus they are often up to date with everything. AND they have a Lazarus package that I believe is up to date! (Laz ppl correct me if I'm wrong on this?)

    At the very least installing Lazarus on any distrobution is not a problem anymore. Or so I'm told, I've not been in Linus for some time now.

    At any rate, trying to get us back on topic [size=9px](my fault really, so I forgive you! )[/size] getting Laz and FPC installed should be the least of any sysadmin's worries. So tell Mr. 'I don't wanna'-pants to get it in gear.
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  10. #20

    Promoting Free Pascal in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by WILL
    But Debian, as far as I know has gotten a lot better at this. Plus they are often up to date with everything. AND they have a Lazarus package that I believe is up to date! (Laz ppl correct me if I'm wrong on this?)
    Debian and up to date?! They are still shipping fpc 1.9.4!

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