Caimans quest (Finished)

[Smotsholle]

First some information on why I want to start this project:
I played the game for a while on the GBA and I saw how many forums have dedicated themselves to this game.
Downside to the gameboy game is that you can only play eachother via a link cable. This means you can't play over the internet.
Since there's no PC version I plan to make my own interpretation.

What I plan on making:
-The game world (map) will be isometric, using a tile based world. So I simply stack blocks which are 64x48 pixels each.
-The main character will be an isometric sprite with a walking and jumping animation (I don't see why I should add more, maybe later)
-The world map will be divided in screens of 10x10 blocks, when you walk out of the screen, you enter the next (should save the comp a lot of calculating)
-The way of giving orders to the little critters will be the same
-The visual representation of battling will be the isometric too. You will see 2 critters battling on a 3x9 field (in case of evasion or a miss, the critter will jump sideways and get back on the center row afterwards).
-I will make up my own critters, unless lots of people like the actual pokemon in the game.
-I will make 3d models in truespace (low poly & low detail) and convert them to sprites using a home made program (in delphi).
-When the basic game is finished I will attempt to make an elaborate map editor so I can add extra episodes to the game.
-The critter sprites will be more elaborate. There will be a small spriteset for each basic attack. Advanced attacks will be made more beautiful to watch because I will add effect sprites to make them look more powerfull.

What I've done so far:
- A 10x10 field with blocks of random height (1 or 2 high)
- A walking dude which runs and jumps (keeping the block hight in account when jumping up/down or walking). He's controlled by using the arrow keys.
- A scroll function. This means that the camera always centers on the main dude. This looks funny when jumping because you see the background moving up and down then

I'll add a screenshot and a demo next monday (because then I'll be near the computer with the game again)

A demo of an older version can be found here:
http://webserv.nhl.nl/~kampe001/tactics.zip


I'm curious about what you thik of this.
Since you seem to have lots of ideas about game making I have a few questions about this game, some advice would be nice:
- Would the ISO sprites be nicer when I draw them in a 3d program or would the cartoon style be better?
- Should I use actual pokemon or would it be more original/better to think up my own?
- Should I keep the Z-axis scroll? (not visible in the current demo) This scroll makes the screen scroll when jumping too.
- I've been thinking of making the game world simple, This means I won't add big houses and mansions.. It will be mostly trees and small huts then. This gives the natural feel. Do you agree with me on this one?
- Most important question. I told you earlier I wanted to make this game because there is no PC version with networking/internet support. Is this actually true?

[Traveler]

Hello Smotsholle,

Welcome to PGD!

I don't know the game myself, so I can't really help you there. I've tried the demo and it works pretty good. Only bug I could find is that the guy at some point jumped off the map. He did jump back, but after that didn't move again. But I suppose since you already have a newer version, that bug is probably out as well

As for your questions:
1) Do what you do best. If you rock with a 3D program, go that way. Otherwise use a paint program. A 3D has its advantages with animating though.
2) More original: yes. Better: depends on your creativity.
3) It could be. Its hard to judge without actually having seen it.
4) I don't know. As said earlier I don't know the game. But as a general rule of thumb I would say if its an improvement to the game(play), add it. Otherwise don't.
5) Can't say. But if there are any, would that stop you?

[Smotsholle]

Thanks for the suggestions....

Conclusion here:
I will go with the 3d graphics in TrueSpace (same program Reiner uses).

About the Pokemon game, allow me to explain what the game is:
In the real game you play a character. This character can start out with a creature called a pokemon, like animals there are many different kinds and each one has it's own pros and cons.
Like most rpg games these animals can level and become stronger. You can meet other NPC characters who also have there creatures. By fighting them you level.
Nice thing is the fact that you can find all creatures somewhere in the games, the strong ones being hard to find.
This means that every enemy you encounter can later on in the game become one of your own pokemon.
You play the game by collecting some of them and experimenting with them.

The global storyline is to beat 8 so-called gym leaders. They are in some way the bosses you have to beat. When you beat them you get to compete in the leage. You have to fight the 4 or 5 strongest bosses in the game there.

The strength of the game lies in the fact that the game doesn't stop when you've explored every part of the map and have defeated every enemy. You will want to try out all of the strong creatures and you want to make them stronger.

Eventually, when you've created a team of which you think is really good, you'll want to test it against other people playing this game.

Very often you will find another player is stronger. This means you have to change your tactics, catch different pokemon and try again.

You'll keep playing on until you get sick of the game, unlike many games you don't play until you've beaten the bosses.

I hope this sums the game up pretty good.
Like I said before, I'll upload the later walking demo monday.

Ps. The walking out of the screen problem has been fixed

[Smotsholle]

As promised here are a screenshot and the latest version.

Screenshot:


Demo:
http://webserv.nhl.nl/~kampe001/loper.zip

Arrow keys to walk.
ESC to exit.

I've decided to not waste time on trying to make my own characters yet. I'm not that much of a graphical artist. I'm hoping that when I have a working version, some people might want to help me do it.

In case of emergency I'll just rip the graphics from the game and make them look better using GIMP or something like it.

[savage]

Hi Smotsholle,
My son ( who's 8 ) and I are both Pokemon fans. He's logged about 200hours game time and knows most of them quite well and at what level they evolve etc. and also thought it would be great to have something similar on the PC with multiplayer capabilities.

We will be watching your progress with much interest.

From the outset I suggest you make the Pokemon format quite extensible so that others can create and extend the game with their own creations/mutations. Or maybe a way of mating Pokemon to create new ones.

Anyway just some thoughts.

[Sly]

Or maybe a way of mating Pokemon to create new ones.

Just what everyone needs. Pokemon porn. Or would that be Pokeporn?

[WILL]

Pokeporn... :lol:

Well you could take the 'trainning' part and mix in some actual learning AI into the mix. Not trying to push the NN &GA stuff, but I have seen this done to some extent(can't remember the program unfortunately ) and the idea was that you had a habitat of little creatures that you could breed and raise and they'd evolve and you could trade creatures with others online...

Basically you get the trill of each pokemon creature not havingthe same 'personality' each time you play, thus making each one more valuable and personalized.

The game Black and White had a great system where it would allow you to punish or reward your 'pet' to make him either good or evil depending on what he does. So if he picks up a human and eats him you can punish or reward him for doing this and he'll either do it more or less depending on how you 'teach' him.

[savage]

I think you may be thinking of Spore - http://spore.ea.com/, which looks quite awesome if they pull it off.

[Traveler]

Spore looks indeed impressive. Funny intro too

I think WILL's talking about creatures.

Anyways, we're getting a bit off topic here.
Smotsholle, the thing I was wondering is why the screen is so small?
Your new demo works okay. Only bit annoying thing is the automatic jumping. Is that intentional?

[Smotsholle]

About the thinking up of the critters
I want to create a simple demo version first.
Like I said I'm no graphics artist.
When The demo is finished I want to go to some random pokemon forums and ask for graphical help there, but that's in the future.

Reproduction:
That also is a plan which might be added in the long run. It's not on my mind yet.

Small screen size
I want to give the game the gameboy feel. This explains the low res. Of course I will add a fullscreen option later.

Jumping
The map in this demo is extremely uneven. The actual game map will be as uneven as the real pokemon game, which is mostly flat. This means you will hardly ever see the jump in action.
I've been thinking of making the jumping ability something you have to quest for, which means you can't jump at the start of the game, but in a certain part of the game, you have to go up some stairs to get further. You can't go up unless you have the jump ability for which you have to defeat a certain player or so.

Progress
The only days I work on this are monday, tuesday and wednesday (because I have a pc with internet then)
At the moment I've been able to add a NPC to the game. You can talk to him, that's all. I've also changed the map to non-random, so you can get a better view of what the game will look like.

Reiner's spriteset converter
Because the spriteengine of Jedi-SDL works with sprites from a single file, I've created a simple program which takes all of the walking sprites in certain directions and places it in a single BMP. This program adds the ability to make up to 2 colors pink. I use that to remove the shadow and create a transparent background. The source is not built up efficiently, but it works.
Should you be interested, I'll put the source online, but this program is merely functional, so not simple to handle or good looking



--==EDIT==--

I've added a new screenshot and the updated demo.

Screenshot:


Demo:
>>FIXED<< The zip file was damaged, attempt to re-upload tonight or monday.

I had an idea which I illustrated on my first post. It is hard to explain without a picture, so here we go.

Imagine the 2 characters being critters. They each have their own 3x3 platform. The 2 platforms are connected by a single plot of land.
I want to change the battle system. If one of the critters does a tackle attack, you can actually see the critter heading towards the other one.
The terrain allows a dodge ability too. A critter can jump into one of the 8 directions in an attempt to dodge the attack.

To be honest the pokemon gameplay is great, but the battle system looks kind of simple. This has been improved on later editions (the 3d ones).
I want to improve on the gameboy version. When a pokemon flies here, I really want it to fly. When a pokemon is poisoned, I actually want to add a little poison cloud as a transparent sprite.

The difference in battle system makes it hard to implement some attacks, so I won't implement them (constrict, wrap, or anything which results in a sprite merge).

(I gotta cut down on the post length)