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Thread: How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

  1. #31

    How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

    As strange as it may sound, I just wanted to *agree* with last flame of Almindor. Know that the issue "FPC/Lazarus create too big executables" was discussed thousand times on fpc and lazarus mailing lists, and

    1. There are solutions -- as dmantione, Almindor (and google) pointed out.

    2. At some point it's just considered "whining" when someone says that FPC/Lazarus are worse than Delphi just because they create too large executables. Let's face it: 2 MB filesize is not terribly bad. It's only bad when you have to transfer it over the network, but for this even simple non-FPC specific solutions (I mean compressing, with e.g. upx) are quite good.

    I agree that it is an important knowledge to know how to make small exe size (so I'm not flaming everyone interested in this topic...). But it's not a *crucial thing*. When someone chooses one programming language over the other, or one proprietary-closed-source-Windows-only IDE over open-source portable IDE, and as a main reason gives that "the resulting exe size was too big" --- well, that's just not a good reason.

    That's the main reason why I didn't wanted to get involved in this thread --- I just saw similar discussions between Delphi people and FPC people about "too big exe size" happen a lot. Well, I got involved now, basically just to back up Almindor post.

    That's it. In summary, I just tried to explain why many FPC/Lazarus people find it very irritating when Delphi people ask over and over about "why executables are so large".

    (Oh, and Lazarus has integrated debugger of course; under Windows this debugger is admittedly not so absolutely rock-solid stable as Delphi (under Linux things are better), but things are progressing nicely and it's definitely usable).

  2. #32

    How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

    Now children, be nice.

    I personally asked because I couldn't find the answers on the Lazarus site or the FPC site. In fact, a search didn't find anything of use to me. FPC/Lazarus appears to have the exact same style as Linux, the: "If you don't wanna delve into the guts, don't use it" style.

    Stow the attitude, one and all.

  3. #33

    How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

    Quote Originally Posted by Almindor
    There's a sticky post I pasted on the FreePascal forum before the Lazarus forum was even opened, and it nicely tells you all you need to do to get minimal executable filesizes.
    You could have posted a ]I could tell you people to RTFM instead I'm going to flame you to hell so get ready.[/quote]
    I could tell you to STFU, but it's rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almindor
    1. You didn't RTFM
    Post the ]2. If you like delphi more, use delphi
    3. If you want integrated debugger support, use delphi
    4. If you want to help, write patches[/quote]
    Now you are the first who actually lets me do what I like instead of arguing about my preferences. :lol:

    Quote Originally Posted by Almindor
    Unlike with Delphi or Kylix you can actualy try to help and provide enhancments and bugfixes for the compiler itself as well as various libraries.
    Also, I can use another free and better compiler instead (not even necesarily for Pascal), which is an option you didn't mention. However, this is not a point of our discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by michalis
    Know that the issue "FPC/Lazarus create too big executables" was discussed thousand times on fpc and lazarus mailing lists.
    Sorry, I'm not in the mailing list. Can you share some info on what was the resolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Almindor
    Whining about big filesizes or whatever other useless and completly irrelevant little itch you got right now is only going to keep people who actualy DO something from doing it.
    +
    Quote Originally Posted by michalis
    I agree that it is an important knowledge to know how to make small exe size (so I'm not flaming everyone interested in this topic...). But it's not a *crucial thing*.
    When you participate in 64k or even 4k contest, the size is *extremely crucial* and *very significative*. If you consider a "generated application size" discussion a "whining", then we should talk again in few years, after you are an adult.

    Quote Originally Posted by michalis
    When someone chooses one programming language over the other, or one proprietary-closed-source-Windows-only IDE over open-source portable IDE, and as a main reason gives that "the resulting exe size was too big" --- well, that's just not a good reason.
    Ok, then what is a good reason for you? (Are you aware that reasons are specific to particular people/companies?)

    Quote Originally Posted by michalis
    Let's face it: 2 MB filesize is not terribly bad.
    IMHO, 2 MB for a simple application is *extremely bad*. No matter if its on Linux, Windows, Mac OS X or any other platform. Again, that depends on particular needs of each person/company.

    Quote Originally Posted by michalis
    In summary, I just tried to explain why many FPC/Lazarus people find it very irritating when Delphi people ask over and over about "why executables are so large".
    Maybe we should put a warning notice to this thread: "Warning! If you are sensitive to stress or mentally unstable, don't read the thread".

    If you get irritated by a simple discussion which occured several times in the past, then what will happen if you will have to give a technical support and explain thousand times how to "alpha-blend" image on the screen? (happened to me and I never considered it "whining" or lost my nerve when answering these questions).

    If you have a certain sensibility to these questions, then avoid these [size=18px]evil threads[/size] at all cost!

  4. #34

    How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifepower
    When you participate in 64k or even 4k contest, the size is *extremely crucial* and *very significative*. If you consider a "generated application size" discussion a "whining", then we should talk again in few years, after you are an adult.
    Should I really reply to this?

    In that case you will like that the empty application is only 20k. Competitors can in such cases also put some braces around the threading manager initialization and command line parser in the rtl (which, combined with the memory manager, is the bulk of that 20k), giving you plenty of room to code your 64k demo.

  5. #35

    How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

    Not sure why I waste my time replying to people like you ( I guess I love flames ) in any case, you're way off. If you want to use gcc, go ahead but try static linking with it a hello world.

    For demo scene, you can make your own special supersmall RTL and I'm sure you could go to about 5kb binaries.

    Your "funny remarks" like "shoveling the crap" etc. only point out you like to criticize without any constructivism. LCL is big, OOP and CROSS-PLATFORM. Filesize is the price you pay for comfort.

    The filesize problem is known and is being worked on, but it will take more than an army of whiners to write a custom linker which will work on all platforms supported by fpc. Note that filesizes with LCL are about same on most platforms it can be used, so it's not a win32 problem at all.

    If you write a linker for us then you can have added weight to any of your statements.
    Feel the power of Open Source.
    <br />Feel the power of Free Pascal.

  6. #36

    How to reduce FreePascal and Lazarus Exe Size...

    May you guys stop flamming ?
    That's really stupid.

    As I told on the second page, the size problem comes from the vcl, and is a common problem for all framework oriented program, whatever it is, delphi, .net, ...

    So as someone just told, if you want to make a small apllication just make your own vcl, with only what you needs in it.
    This is how you would do if you did it in C/C++ for exemple, you would do everything from scratch. Or you would use a library wich size you must add to the total. The language itself isn't responsible for that.

    Now, considering such a discution as useless is stupid too, hey, as a software programmer, you should worry about the size. It's like if i said 'bah, i can use 40 MB of memory for my hello world, computers now have a lot of memory'. It's the same thing. When computers get upgraded, it's not for us to waste their new space.
    And if you want to upadate a software, yo uwould surely likes your files to be as small as possible, as bandwicth usage and download time are non negligeable (and in such a case, you would be stupid not to build your soft with runtimes out of it).

    And telling "if you want it to do small exe, just work for it and give us your code" is a really bad philosophy. People should be allowed and encouraged to work on it, not forced to if they want it to suit their needs.[/b]

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