OpenGL GLSL - Text rendering query

[phibermon]

glFlush and glFinish are the correct calls to make to handle the GL command buffer. The swap operation essentially calls these, schedules the swap on v-sync and then blocks until that's complete.

GL commands might be buffered across a network, or to a display server (think remote GL on X11) or in the GL implementation you're using (mesa, nvidia drivers etc)

To correctly handle a v-synced GL application you should be setting up your frame so you spend the minimum amount of time possible on the blocking swap call.

You can use GL timers to get the 'server' side timing, calculate the command buffer overhead by comparing that against your 'client' side GL calls followed by flush and finish and then you know that you can call swap and meet the v-sync 'deadline' with the minimum amount of time blocked in the swap call.

If you stream resources to graphics memory? such a setup is crucial for getting the maximum bandwidth without dropping frames.

As far as legacy GL is concerned, or to give it the correct name : "immediate mode"? the clue is in the name. GL3+ (in the context of performance) is all about batching - minimizing the API calls and efficiently aligning data boundaries.

It's not about fixed function or programmable hardware - it's about how the data is batched and sent to that hardware, regardless of the actual functionality.

Display lists in older GL versions were a herald of things to come - they allow you to bunch together all your commands and allow the GL implementation to store the entire display list in whatever native format it pipes to the actual hardware, effectively storing the commands 'server' side so they don't have to be sent over the pipe every time. How they are handled is vendor specific, some display list implementations are no faster than immediate calls (some old ATI + intel drivers long ago were known for it)

So yes - IMMEDIATE mode GL, that is, versions before 3.x which are referred to here as 'legacy' - will always be slower than the modern APIs - it's not about vendor implementation regardless of how optimal or not their code is.

Other than display lists and any driver specific optimizations the vendor may of made - there's no 'batching' in legacy GL. This is why we have VBOs, instancing - all server side optimizations - this is why Vulkan and newer APIs are capable of better performance in various situations.

The bottleneck is call overhead, 'instruction latency and bandwidth' - call it what you will. It's not what you move or what is done with it when it gets there - it's how you move it.

GL2 is moving a ton of dirt with a teaspoon. GL3+ is moving a ton of dirt with a pneumatic digger. (Vulkan is moving a ton of dirt with a bespoke digger that has been built right next to the pile of dirt)

If you're only moving a teaspoon of dirt? use a teaspoon, it's easier to use than a digger - but don't defend your teaspoon when you need to move a ton of dirt.

Or something like that. Something something teaspoon. I think we can all agree : teaspoon.

[Chebmaster]

If you're only moving a teaspoon of dirt? use a teaspoon [...] Or something like that. Something something teaspoon.

Much better said that me. Thank you.
I'll add from myself that there is also GLES (an unruly, hard to tame beast) that does not have immediate mode functions but is required to support some platforms.

Me, I created a wrapper classfor small to medium loads. It hides actual implementation (may be glVertexAttribPointer() or may be older, more basic vertex arrays) and only use it to move my teaspoons.
Why? Because this way it lets you think of *all* your data as meshes. And contains much, much less API-related code to rehaul if you have to change your rendering mechanisms later.

glFinish()

I observed modern intel drivers flat out ignore this. But legacy drivers (say, Windows XP + Gf 5200 FX) *require* this called *after* SwapBuffers, otherwise you won'y get accurate measurement
(my engine uses this value for controlling adaptive detail, alongside the fps meter)

so you spend the minimum amount of time possible on the blocking swap call.

So, rendering, *then* sh-- stuff like backround uploading of higher LODs and only then SwapBuffers...? That's... such a good idea. Why am I doing it backwards?

You can use GL timers to get the 'server' side timing,

Me, I usually get "yer ghetto intel video doesn't know that trick" and stop bothering

[paul_nicholls]

Me, I usually get "yer ghetto intel video doesn't know that trick" and stop bothering

hahah! That's gold

[laggyluk]

On the topic, using shaders: if you are drawing text on background you don't need to use transparency, just lerp between font and background color based on font alpha.

I don't know anything about OpenGL 2.0 because I stared with 3.0 using tutorials in C++. You don't really need to know much about C++ to apply this to pascal as OpenGL API calls stay the same. I guess that's why no one really bothers to make tutorials in Pascal

Learned mainly from this one with zero prior OpenGL knowledge and managed to pull off deferred renderer with SSAO and stuff: http://ogldev.atspace.co.uk/

[AthenaOfDelphi]

On the topic, using shaders: if you are drawing text on background you don't need to use transparency, just lerp between font and background color based on font alpha.

I don't know anything about OpenGL 2.0 because I stared with 3.0 using tutorials in C++. You don't really need to know much about C++ to apply this to pascal as OpenGL API calls stay the same. I guess that's why no one really bothers to make tutorials in Pascal

Learned mainly from this one with zero prior OpenGL knowledge and managed to pull off deferred renderer with SSAO and stuff: http://ogldev.atspace.co.uk/

Thanks for that, I'll take a look. For the time being, my approach is working, allowing me to focus on the more interesting elements of the game I'm trying to write

[SilverWarior]

Hey AthenaOfDelphi are you perhaps panning in participating in Lazarus Game Contest 2018? Based on this thread I'm assuming you plan on having a retro look in your game. Right?

[AthenaOfDelphi]

No, I'm not having a go at a competition... I did look at it, but if I recall correctly, you have to release sources... I'd like to make money from this endeavour, so it's closed source all the way for me right now

And yes, it is due to have a retro look... mainly text based UI for the entire game.