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Thread: Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

  1. #1
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    A topic of much debate is the DelphiX copyright terms that creator and author of the original DelphiX, Hiroyuki Hori. Attempts to continue his popular, yet abandoned component library suite tied in with a lack of understanding of the complete legal ramifications have lead to a separate branch labeled as unofficial. This is called UnDelphiX and is commonly just called DelphiX as a general 'mish-mash' term to encompass both original and it's descendant editions.

    Though this has been a practice for the last 6 or so years, the question of the legal status and the officialism of UnDelphiX has been dragged out all this time. I would like to put this issue to bed soon. If no one knows the exact legal terms presented in the Japanese documentation based off the poorly translated English version, lets get it retranslated.


    Here is the unaltered original Copyright notice in the Japanese version:


    and now the poorly translated English version:


    Now, who knows Japanese?


    Laughing already? Well you should. Chances are that most previous and current users of Delphi that created games in the early 2000s have used DelphiX or UnDelphiX without a clue as to what it's legal status is. I find it somewhat funny to think of it.

    It is the intention of us at PGD to seek out the complete legal definition and see if we cannot get the DelphiX brand 'open sourced' and made available to the community at large. Being able to do so will free our options to either promote or host the component tools on a more official basis. No more Official Unofficial-ness of such a popular and handy library.
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  2. #2

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    Basically, in order for us to take the DelphiX torch and keep on running, we're going to need Hori's permission to Open Source it.

    What Hori's saying is DelphiX is Free and you're free to make anything using it, but the source is his as are the samples. So no repackaging, redistributing or modifying without his express permission.

    But saying as no-one's been able to contact him, this makes getting his permission a tad difficult.

    as I understand it anyway.. I may be able to get it translated from Japanese, but no promises.

  3. #3
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    Well there haven't been any for 6 years, I'm sure we'll manage at this point.

    Besides that. The English version seems sketchy and hard to read, perhaps some of what is said it due to poor translation and important details might be missing or stated incorrectly. Only the Japanese can be certain right now.

    If the DelphiX name cannot be taken and made a part of the brand, there are other options to continue UnDelphiX, perhaps even under a different name. But we should be thorough in our understanding and what we can and cannot do to proceed.
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  4. #4

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    There is another option that has yet to be expressed. We (as a community, or as an individual who is interested) could simply create a library that "Supports" the DelphiX interface style. By this I mean that if we created a library that utilized Pascal and DirectX (I prefer not to say Delphi, as I think that FPC users should be able to benifit as well) that had components with the same structure as DelphiX, but didn't utilize the same code base (much of witch has been replaced already by unofficial versions, or could be easily replaced due to its sheer general purpose) it could be considered as outside of the origional license.

    Personally, I still think that it would be a good endevor of PGD in general to develop libraries around SDL, OpenGL, and DirectX under the PGD name. Make them cross compatiable, so that switching would be easy. What DelphiX did, that many others have not, is made a VERY simple to use set of components that could be extended by those that knew how. I think that a general component setup could be achieved for all of the libraries utilizing Hori's design considerations and goals.

    Just my two cents though, and I'm sure that not everyone will agree with me.

  5. #5

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    I will also put in 2 cents worth

    Personally I feel sticking with DelphiX is flogging a dead horse. There are now so many good alternatives to DelphiX I really would bother putting all this effort into remaking DelphiX.

    I got out of DelphiX and went to Omega because it was so similar to what I was used to with DelphiX. Now I have moved on to DJX and I really see no reason to go back.

    DelphiX was great, it got me into commercial programming however it has had its time.

    I have looked at the current offering of UnDelphiX and it feels very much cobbled together and yet it doesn't offer the benefits of other systems like DanJetX and Asphyre.
    The views expressed on this programme are bloody good ones. - Fred Dagg

  6. #6

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    I totally agree. There is really no reason to stick around with it any longer.

    There are for sure those people who get used to work with (Un)DelphiX, but I can tell you the following:

    I started with DelphiX, rather quick I found many things I was not able to do with it, went over to "Powerdraw". While I stuck around with Powerdraw, it became Asphyre. And from that point on there was a mark in my brains to get stuck with Asphyre. Several versions appeared and I got used to work with it (like other may did with DelphiX). But the main reason was, that Yuriy developed Asphyre further on. There were new features in every release. And what I can tell now is that when anyone tries to make hardware accelerated games in 2D, Asphyre should be the first choice!

    3D-components are still being developed (new Asphyre promises amazing features like Quake 3 model support etc).

    A few days ago I decided to try out DanJetX, because I heard sometimes of it when Czar was announcing new versions.

    And my first impression is it is fantastic! It supports nearly all things I missed in Asphyre (though of course I wait for the new version!).

    I am porting my plant engine to DanJetX right now. The (rather small) community likes it very much as far as I can see.

    Ok, long talk, not much sense.

    What I wanted to tell you is, that I was a DelphiX user myself. But other libraries are much better and give much more opportunities in gamedevelopment. DelphiX always made an outdated impression to me.

    So why bothering about copyrights of old units when you can have up to date units like Asphyre/DanJetX? I don't see any reason...

    Greetings,
    Dirk
    <a href="http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/game/Valgard/?utm_source=gge&amp;utm_medium=badge_game"><img border="0" alt="GGE" title="GGE" src="http://static.greatgamesexperiment.com/badge/game/valgard/gge400x56.png"></a>

  7. #7

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    Still, DelphiX is used a lot. Even today we had questions about it. Agreed its old and there are arguably better packages out there, but really, that is irrelevant to this matter.

    However, I do question this endeavor for its usefulness. Its been over 7 years since Delphix was released. In all this time we've not even seen a single post from Hori. I very much doubt he'll be on our doorstep one day questioning our interpetation of his legal terms.

    As for making it available to the community at large. Isn't that already the case? I mean type DelphiX in Google and Hori's homepage comes up third. That again has been the case for the past seven years. I kinda fail to see why that should change now.

  8. #8

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    Googling for Hori i found out this link:

    http://www.tmpgenc.net/

    It seems Hori is working or have worked with tMPEGnc Net and/or Pegasys Inc...

    In the about page there is hori's email that is different to the one on the
    delphix page, that is this: hori@tmpgenc.net

    Also there's a link that goes straight to his delphi site so for sure we are
    talking about the same guy

    If you didn't do that already, WILL or some other admins can try to
    contact him on the above address, maybe he will reply
    <center>
    <br />Federico &quot;FNX&quot; Nisoli
    <br />Lead Programmer - FNX Games
    <br />http://www.fnxgames.com
    <br /><img src="http://www.fnxgames.com/imgs/banners/fnxban.gif">
    <br /></center>

  9. #9
    Co-Founder / PGD Elder WILL's Avatar
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    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    I can understand many people's reluctance to cheer on good ole DelphiX. It is indeed falling into an 'oldschool' category nowadays. But as some of you have said, it is still used and sought after by many new Delphi game programmers. And it was a great learning tool for newcomers lets not forget.

    True JEDI-SDL, Asphyre, Omega, Headers themselves and many more are much better, all things considered in their current state. But DelphiX is still more popular as sick as that is.

    So as long as people want it and it brings new Pascal programmers into the game dev fold, why not keep it around.

    DelphiX is currently without much of a florishing home today. Hori's site is more comprehensive in Japanese than in English, Turbo has been ghosted and dispite all the other great content about it on the developers' sites it's still somewhat of an orphan. So we've been pondering the idea to take it in and make an official page for it. In whatevery form it my have to take.
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  10. #10

    Dissecting the DelphiX Copyright

    If you are going to do that why not make an "easy" to use DelphiX. Get rid the broken 3d stuff that never made sense and is now done so much better by others.

    And instead concenrate on the reasons why people want to use delphix - easy to learn lots support. Make sure delphix continues tol work with DirectX 7 - this is one great reason to still use delphix. Programs you make using delphix will work on just about all computers out there.

    No point competing with the new systems and lose what made DelphiX so useful.
    The views expressed on this programme are bloody good ones. - Fred Dagg

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