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Thread: Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

  1. #1

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Dear Friends, let me share my sadness story.

    I am living in Indonesia - if you didn't know where is it, it's in south east asia right above australia and very near singapore.

    I learn Pascal in University 1991, before that I do Basica & Quick Basic, learned in junior and senior high school, "what a DOS days". Then since I know Pascal, I fell in love with it, like there is no other. Even though after getting Logic & Algorithm (Pascal) course, I do took C course (Turbo C), but still I do my hobby programming at home only with Pascal, especially because new Turbo Pascal 7 is very nice that days (I even develop a tools application to generate Pascal code for a full feature windowed GUI for DOS applications by visual way, much like what Delphi did for windows environment). Then even came Delphi, now I fell in love with it and never look back 1995/96.

    After graduated, my position rapidly raising as IT Manager in a Movie/TV company, can you imagine that ? Most what I've done there is manage computer hardware, networking, server admin, web designing, 3D animation, movie special effect and almost no programming. But still I have keep my hobby doing game programming, such developing a combination of Diablo & Ultima 7 Action RPG and I really love doing it in my spare time, it's the days of DirectX and Windows 98.

    Then came the "south east asian monetary crisis", my company goes bankrupt, I do quit before it happen though (I can't stand my good boss pay my salary, just by doing nothing, because at that time the production almost got no order at all). Try my luck to work as a database programmer on a merchandizing company, but I can not stand in the office politics over there, and so I decided to quit again - 1999.

    After unemployed almost a full year, my girlfriend told me there is an advertising of a new Game Company (an Australian company) looking for game programmers. It was really a shock for me, because it is the first Indonesian game company ever exists and before that, I never dream that I can work in a game industry at all. I do manage to impress several interviewers then got the job easily (by showing demo of my Action RPG mentioned previously). It is a very happy day and we are only 3 programmers accepted from 150++ applies.

    But the happiness is soon over, when I face the fact that the company is using C++ (Visual Studio 6) instead of Pascal. Then I think why not using powerfull Delphi ? I even have to argue with my boss (from USA) on an assignment to develop tools & applications for supporting the game development in progress. My argue is: "it is faster and better to develop it uses Delphi". But my boss expression is just raising eyebrow and said: "What is Delphi? NEVER HEARD IT!".

    Quite a shock and I thought: "is it really unpopular, Delphi outside of my country ?", so someone can simply said "Never Heard It" ?

    Well OK, I think I must face the fact that this company is uses C++ and I thought to my self: "what did I've done by deciding to love Pascal and Delphi all these years anyway?".

    I've tried very hard to love C++, REALLY, I do several project with success, even more weird, after that I must use Java (what the hell?) for a a web game project. Lucky me Java is just like a C++ with different name. Even tough I do really hard to try to love other languages, but still I cannot... I can't love C++! I can't love Java! I really really sorry to say my heart is only for Delphi. In course of almost 2 years I keep doing Delphi game programming in my spare time, though in office, I am also doing game programming, but at home, I do enjoy my Delphi game programming the most.

    I have even showed the demo to my colleague programmers (they are all fresh graduate), and what are their response: "What language do you use?", I said: "Delphi", then they like look down on me, like what a low class and idiot language of choice.

    It really break my heart, I don't know is it the world is change? do I really idiot by using Delphi? or something wrong in the world with Pascal, Borland and Delphi which I didn't know for past years since I've graduated ?

    Well later I learn latest news is Borland - Inprise & DBase with many others Borland fiasco did the job done and Microsoft marketing and strategy aggresiveness have fatally done it over.

    I tought heck man, what on earth the fact of an individual "nobody" like my self will be affected by such worldly event! Do I sorry for letting my love only to Pascal - Delphi ? Not yet...

    Then I do quit from the Game Studio to form my own business with friends, simply an internet cafe store. It is a booming business that days 2001 till 2003 then it start to fell over like dominoes, since there is so many new competitor opening newer and better internet cafe (they have newer computers ofcourse while I need to reinvest all VGA, memory, processor, motherboard heck! NO), the price war is ON.

    I did still doing several Delphi programming during those days, including "game development", but most of it, just for prototyping of an engine and testing it.

    Today the fiercest market really hit me, income from internet cafe is no longer sufficient, I must apply for work. My whole family is in the USA like about 5-6 years already. I think I should move to USA too and working as game programmer or whatever programming I can take over there.

    Really unlucky for me since 9/11 to get VISA on all purposes is really - really HARD. That is not all, I'm browsing job vacancy all over the world, and realize that, using my lovely language is not available at all for any vacancies. Darn, it is present days and I really need money for a living and my skills on Delphi like nothing. The only all of those vacancies requirement is C++, the LARGE - LARGE C++ all over the job requirements, also C#, LUA, etc.... And NONE about PASCAL or DELPHI!

    I want to CRY! Is it my decision is really wrong? what a pity of fate...
    I don't know about you guys, how you all keep this Pascal thingy rolling ?

    But even I truly praise Pascal - Delphi, it is time for me to realize, the fact is: "the world is not a Pascal world", it is really cruel end to my love, a heart break, a sad story of Delphi goodbye...

    My last program in Delphi 7 is my Game Tools & Engine "Moongate Tools", purpose to let "everyone develop their own game", without the need of prior programming knowledge at all. It is a game which something like I love the most: "Diablo + Ultima 7" again, but this time it has MMO capability ala Ragnarok if you know this korean MMORPG anyway. You can find the tools in this site too. I still have a lot of confidence when develop it, trying doing many multi thread trick there, network engineering algorithm such client prediction, bandwith optimization, anti cheat, also implementing persistent world Artificial Intelligent, etc.

    But really, that is enough, now I am in the progress of relearning of C++ and trying to delete Pascal from my brain. Very very hard!

    Before doing it, I am even considering to switch to Free Pascal - Lazarus - Linux programming, but the chance of future is still slim since in linux C++ also dominating.

    Saddddddd like I wanna die, stupid me fell in love to a wrong language! My heart is still love Pascal, my mindset is Pascal, my code style is Pascal, but my stomach told me to get real money for buying food from C++!!!

    How cruel this world, how stupid you "Borland", you fall and dragging me down! Or may be not the world which is wrong, but my self stupid-stupid decision in my university days, why should I quickly fell in love with Pascal in the first time? why should not I wait to fall in love with C a bit later? How unlucky there is no C++ in those days...

    I wish I can turn the time over, and learn the mindset only for C and C++ for later...

    I really wish!!!

    It is really hard to forget a 17 years romance story with a language!
    Even when I learn C++ I still open my old Delphi sources, still visit Lazarus's site, searching in google of "Why Pascal is not a language of choice", and typing this stupid story here...

    I just can not understand why you people still stick with Pascal and have a happy days ? Please help me what should I do? at least please tell me is it this time my decision is correct ?

    Why there is no vacancy for Delphi programmer?

    Why?

    Please...

  2. #2

    Re: Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    It really break my heart, I don't know is it the world is change? do I really idiot by using Delphi? or something wrong in the world with Pascal, Borland and Delphi which I didn't know for past years since I've graduated ?
    No, you use appropriate tools for the appropriate job. Delphi can be really good both for games and software development. Yes, you shouldn't close your eyes on other languages - every language and its accompanying IDE have their advantages and weaknesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    Then I do quit from the Game Studio to form my own business with friends, simply an internet cafe store. It is a booming business that days 2001 till 2003 then it start to fell over like dominoes, since there is so many new competitor opening newer and better internet cafe (they have newer computers ofcourse while I need to reinvest all VGA, memory, processor, motherboard heck! NO), the price war is ON.
    Yes, that's pretty much what happened to my partner and me when we opened our Internet/Gaming Cafe. IMHO this business becomes less viable every day. You might open a diner cafe or sell icecream and have much more income than from Internet Cafe these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    Really unlucky for me since 9/11 to get VISA on all purposes is really - really HARD. That is not all, I'm browsing job vacancy all over the world, and realize that, using my lovely language is not available at all for any vacancies. Darn, it is present days and I really need money for a living and my skills on Delphi like nothing. The only all of those vacancies requirement is C++, the LARGE - LARGE C++ all over the job requirements, also C#, LUA, etc.... And NONE about PASCAL or DELPHI!
    There are actually much more ways of paying for the living, it's just that you have to be very creative sometimes. As I said previously, don't get very attached to just one language. C# and Visual Studio both are great development environments - try them and you may actually start to like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    I want to CRY! Is it my decision is really wrong? what a pity of fate...
    I don't know about you guys, how you all keep this Pascal thingy rolling ?
    Honestly, I get most of my income from working with PHP (mostly business applications). However, with our game Wicked Defense and other two games planned to be released this year - I hope to get more involved working in Delphi.

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    My last program in Delphi 7 is my Game Tools & Engine "Frank's Moongate", purpose to let "everyone develop their own game", without the need of prior programming knowledge at all. It is a game which something like I love the most: "Diablo + Ultima 7" again, but this time it has MMO capability ala Ragnarok if you know this korean MMORPG anyway. You can find the tools in this site too. I still have a lot of confidence when develop it, trying doing many multi thread trick there, network engineering algorithm such client prediction, bandwith optimization, anti cheat, also implementing persistent world Artificial Intelligent, etc.
    This is probably a common mistake most people do. Don't work on game engine - it's a waste of time. It won't sell well and you may not use all of it for your game. Focus on the actual product instead and you will see that *there is no generic engine that fits a particular game perfectly*.

    Don't develop engine so that you can work on some game later on. Design your game and its architecture, and start working on your first prototype.

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    Before doing it, I am even considering to switch to Free Pascal - Lazarus - Linux programming, but the chance of future is still slim since in linux C++ also dominating.
    IMHO Linux is not a viable platform for commercial development. You may have better luck with Mac OS, but cross-platform will require a significant effort (unless you use OpenGL, which will make your game barely playable on Windows user machines where native OpenGL drivers are not installed by default), so the development for these platforms is "too expensive" to worth the trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    I just can not understand why you people still stick with Pascal and have a happy days ? Please help me what should I do? at least please tell me is it this time my decision is correct ?
    We work with Pascal because you can still make money developing software and games.

    Also, do you realize that to getting product complete is more a psychological challange rather than technical? Push it to get the work done, avoid distractions, be open-minded but not easily disappointed even if people say your game/prototype sucks, etc.

    In our game Wicked Defense, technical stuff was easy. The difficult part was to push my partner to finish some artwork, to *avoid playing Starcraft/Alpha Centauri/X-COM/Master of Magic/UT 2004* in our office instead of working, to keep coding even when having a massive hangover, try to stay motivated and keep improving the game when your best friends say it's crap, to limit the time you spend with your girlfriend (and let her understand that you will get a return later on on your time investment), etc.

    There was *no single technical problem* that delayed the development of our game. All problems were psychological and/or emotional. If you can control your emotions, you can do pretty much anything in this life. Having said this, the fact that you use Delphi becomes less important and even a minor issue.

  3. #3

    Re: Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by vendettanet
    I just can not understand why you people still stick with Pascal and have a happy days ? Please help me what should I do? at least please tell me is it this time my decision is correct ?
    You can try to make software to order. This is what I do. Althought I'm only 15 years old, I earned a couple of money by doing this. I have to admit - it's hard to find a customer. Especially for a kid like me.

    In my humble opinion, Pascal/Delphi is not a bad choice. You might not find an interesting job offer on a team using this language though, but you can always try to make a game and then find a publisher. For all I know, publishers don't care about the language the game was written in.

    There's a hope for you and for all of us! Just don't give up, man!

  4. #4

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    vendettanet: Yes, there is no many Delphi vacancies (depending on country), especially in gamedev industry. Actually I know only two modern games made with Delphi - Act of War and XIII Century. Plus many casual/shareware games.
    So if you want to work in a gamedev company as a programmer you should recall C++. And Pascal coding style here is a plus in my opinion.

    Of course you can program (yes, and games too) in Delphi and make money selling your programs as shareware as many people does, including myself.

  5. #5

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    @vendettanet:

    Situation is not so bad as you may think and it is getting better (because of all the good stuff going on around FPC and Delphi 2007). In my country there is like 10 Delphi jobs per month so... if you are ready to travel..;-)

    I am having luck to write this post in my office with Delphi 7 oppened in the bottom tab (soon 2007 )

    And I think that situation in UK or USA is way better. Just don't give up. You may also want to start your own company and fill a lot of gaps on the business market, by making smaller applications for individual customers.
    And after getting back from work you may try to use Lifepower's Asphyre or even pure Direct3D to write your own game with hope of selling it someday.

    Good luck!

  6. #6

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage
    ...Act of War..
    Are you actually sure? Eugen System only searches for C++ and C# programmers at the moment

    Edit: And to the OP. Yes Pascal is my main language. I could never forget how to code it
    However there are not many Delphi jobs up here either. I was lucky to get a job in a nice company where my starting task was to convert some old Delphi code to VB.Net
    Peregrinus, expectavi pedes meos in cymbalis
    Nullus norvegicorum sole urinat

  7. #7

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    I agree that it's very sad, that many companies choose C++ and almost none chooses Delphi.

    I'm not ready for a career as a programmer/software designer (Too busy with study). However... i allready ordered "C++ for dummies" so i can start learning that, to spread my chances to become a succesfull coder. But i think it will be harder and less fun than Pascal. Pascal will remain my "Mother programming language"

    Well later I learn latest news is Borland - Inprise & DBase with many others Borland fiasco did the job done and Microsoft marketing and strategy aggresiveness have fatally done it over.
    Damn... Microsoft indeed only supports C++, C# and VB AFAIK. That will have a bad influence on delphi populairity

    I would encourage everyone to start companies which use delphi/FPC and pascal. It would be great if the world knew what a powerfull and elegant language it is.

    vendettanet: At first i thought it was really odd to associate programming (languages) with phenomenons like "passion" and "love", but as my experience and motivation grew, i found out that programming (which seems a bit dull) really has to do with emotions etc....

    I suddenly realized this, as i was reading your post.
    Coders rule nr 1: Face ur bugz.. dont cage them with code, kill'em with ur cursor.

  8. #8

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by JSoftware
    Are you actually sure? Eugen System only searches for C++ and C# programmers at the moment
    PE Explorer shows Delphi-specific signature in .exe. Also there was d3dx81ab.dll in game's folder which needed only for delphi.

  9. #9

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage
    Quote Originally Posted by JSoftware
    Are you actually sure? Eugen System only searches for C++ and C# programmers at the moment
    PE Explorer shows Delphi-specific signature in .exe. Also there was d3dx81ab.dll in game's folder which needed only for delphi.
    It could have been BCB...

    Aniway, delphi is great for game dev, but tbh borland really ****ed up delphi with all the wrong choices over the years, if we want a delphi programming market now we need to make one.
    This is my game project - Top Down City:
    http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com...y-Topic-Reboot

    My OpenAL audio wrapper with Intelligent Source Manager to use unlimited:
    http://www.pascalgamedevelopment.com...source+manager

  10. #10

    Is Pascal is Still My Lovely Language?

    Aniway, delphi is great for game dev, but tbh borland really ****ed up delphi with all the wrong choices over the years,
    Didn't know that :? What are those wrong choices if i may ask?
    Coders rule nr 1: Face ur bugz.. dont cage them with code, kill'em with ur cursor.

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