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Thread: Tough road to get to iPhone now

  1. #1

    Tough road to get to iPhone now

    I just pasted in a embarcadero.public.delphi.non-technical post here about programming with the iPhone:

    <Lance Rasmussen> wrote in message news:231666@forums.embarcadero.com...
    > Sadly, looks like developing for the iPhone has just gotten tougher.
    >
    > http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/ip...flash_compiler
    >
    > Prior license agreement:
    > 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
    >
    > In the new version of the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement released by Apple today (and which developers must agree to before downloading the 4.0 SDK beta), section 3.3.1 now reads:
    >
    > 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
    >
    > So cross platform tools like Monotouch, Mono, Silverlight and Apcellerator look to be out.
    >
    > Having played with XCode and Objective-C for a bit... I really liked working with C# and Monotouch for the iPhone. Now.. forget about about...
    >
    > Maybe we need an Embarcadero Objective C compiler or work up a Mac version of C++ Builder that can target Mac and iPhone?
    >
    > Only word I can think of... iFAIL.
    What a bummer dudes!

    cheers,
    Paul

  2. #2

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Oh wow, that a huge turn off. I was kind of hoping we could eventually start developing for the iPhone. Perhaps we should go for Android now?

  3. #3

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Maybe we need a magical Pascal -> Objective-C converter to solve our problems

    cheers,
    Paul

  4. #4

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    hm... Pascal -> C should be enough. Plus ObjectivePascal -> Objective-C ;-)
    blog: http://alexionne.blogspot.com/

  5. #5

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    There has been a lot of talk going over section 3.3.1 on the Wax group over the past few hours/days. Since Wax is basically Lua for the iPhone but is still written in C (that's pure C) they are trying to decide exactly how this will affect the project.

    General feeling in the group is most people (if this keeps up) are going to switch to Droid/HTC development. The feeling is that basically Apple is trying to put the hurt on projects like Corona SDK. The idea being that if you can only write in Obj-C then its harder to port an application to another platform.

    IE: FPC definitely falls under the new exclusions and, yep, you can't put your pascal based projects into the iPhone app space nor (according to the OR switch) even run them on your own iPhone.

    A pascal cross compiler is easily achievable (we did this while I was at block), but modifying FPC is the wrong mindset IMHO. If your going to build a cross compiler for pascal -> C or any other language then start from scratch. This lets you make use of (or at least surface some of) the stuff available in both languages that the other may or may not directly support.

    All things considered, I'm surprised that Apple is making this move, ok, no I'm not.

    If someone want's to have a serious go at building a language for the iPhone that crosses over to Obj-C I'm in, but if that's the move lets make it cross for HTC/Droid as well

    - Jeremy

  6. #6

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Quote Originally Posted by jdarling
    IE: FPC definitely falls under the new exclusions and, yep, you can't put your pascal based projects into the iPhone app space nor (according to the OR switch) even run them on your own iPhone.
    Well, you can, the question is what Apple does, how and how often they control the apps that are being send to the Apple App Store.
    I received my iPhone Developer Program the day before yesterday, so just having bad luck I guess

    Personally, I don't think the license agreement will hold up that long. Just take a look how much Unity games are in App Store at the moment and how many of them are in the top 10. Apple is publically speaking of the iPod Touch as the gaming device and competitor to Nintendo DS, PSP, etc.
    Even big players like THQ and EA are using Unity as their IDE. If all Unity apps are going to be banned, the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad loses a lot of its attractivity.

    In only a few days there is going to be an Adobe event with CS5 as its major point and its new ability to compile to Apples' mobile devices which is now illegal thanks to the license agreement.

    This new license agreement is affecting a lot of applications currently in the App Store and even more that being developed at the moment. In my opinion Apple is shooting itself in the foot if they keep up this new license agreement in the long-term run.
    Freeze Development | Elysion Game Framework | Twitter: @Stoney_FD
    Check out my new book: Irrlicht 1.7.1 Realtime 3D Engine Beginner's Guide (It's C++ flavored though)

    Programmer: A device for converting coffein into software.

  7. #7

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Quote Originally Posted by jdarling
    There has been a lot of talk going over section 3.3.1 on the Wax group over the past few hours/days. Since Wax is basically Lua for the iPhone but is still written in C (that's pure C) they are trying to decide exactly how this will affect the project.

    General feeling in the group is most people (if this keeps up) are going to switch to Droid/HTC development. The feeling is that basically Apple is trying to put the hurt on projects like Corona SDK. The idea being that if you can only write in Obj-C then its harder to port an application to another platform.

    IE: FPC definitely falls under the new exclusions and, yep, you can't put your pascal based projects into the iPhone app space nor (according to the OR switch) even run them on your own iPhone.

    A pascal cross compiler is easily achievable (we did this while I was at block), but modifying FPC is the wrong mindset IMHO. If your going to build a cross compiler for pascal -> C or any other language then start from scratch. This lets you make use of (or at least surface some of) the stuff available in both languages that the other may or may not directly support.

    All things considered, I'm surprised that Apple is making this move, ok, no I'm not.

    If someone want's to have a serious go at building a language for the iPhone that crosses over to Obj-C I'm in, but if that's the move lets make it cross for HTC/Droid as well

    - Jeremy
    Personally, I would love to help make a Pascal 'compiler' that creates and compiles C/C++ to make iPhone apps (not that I have an iPhone BTW LOL), or even HTC/Droid (haven't got one of those either haha).

    It would be a great experience

    It depends on how much time I have to help though

    cheers,
    Paul

  8. #8

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Yeah this is a big concern, I already have 7 freepascal apps on the Apple Store and I'm about to publish a last one next week.

    I think it's mainly focused on Flash (released in 2 days!), but it's still a problem for us, Unity, Mono-Touch and a few others.


  9. #9
    PGDCE Developer de_jean_7777's Avatar
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    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Whatever interest I had for developing for iPhone (and there was genuine interest) is now lost. I do not want to be forced to use tools I do not want. I see no sense in what they are trying to accomplish (make developers lives miserable?).
    Existence is pain

  10. #10

    Re: Tough road to get to iPhone now

    Personally I don't think Apple cares if there are now 10 or 20 FreePascal apps in their app store, so we should be somewhat safe if FreePascal won't the become new major programming language for iPhone App development.

    Still, I think the new TOS (terms of service) leave some room for interpretation and don't forget it's a still a beta TOS and can change until the final release of iPhone OS 4. I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. There is a lot of anger against Apple at the moment from a lot sides, and Apple doesn't clarify the new TOS clearly, just points to it and leaves a state of FUD.
    Freeze Development | Elysion Game Framework | Twitter: @Stoney_FD
    Check out my new book: Irrlicht 1.7.1 Realtime 3D Engine Beginner's Guide (It's C++ flavored though)

    Programmer: A device for converting coffein into software.

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