Luna Game Pascal

[SilverWarior]

Uh, how do you expect this to be useful without the source code?

Why wouldn't it be useful without the source code?
There are many closed sourced game engines out there like Unity, Unreal Engine etc. and they are still very popular. So why do you think that Luna Game Pascal needs to be open sourced to be useful?

What is anyone possibly supposed to do with nothing other than a 32-bit DLL (with no headers to describe the methods it contains) and an editor that's nothing more than than a really really stripped down objectively worse version of the Delphi IDE?

Sure Luna Game Pascal needs some good documentation and working examples to become more appealing but since it is still in development and being developed by a single developer (as far as I know) you can't explect it to have same features and same quality as some other game engine that is being developed by a team of hundred or more developers.

For starters, it isn't 2005 anymore... the vast majority of people are using x64 machines. 32-bit is legacy. Any engine that doesn't natively support the creation of x64 binaries is useless.

If anything except 64 bit is useless then why do big game engines still support creation of 32 bit games?
Any way I think that piradyne would love to offer 64 bit support but from what I have seen it seems that Luna Game Pascal has its own custom compiler. Since creating another custom compiler with 64 bit support is not an easy task I'm guessing piradyne might be currently focusing more on other features in order to gain at least some users for his engine.

I get that your engine is obviously built in Delphi which has rather poor x64 support, but that's kinda your problem for not using FPC instead...

You say this like FPC is the only way to go. But it isn't.
Sure Delphi has some flaws but so does FPC. Neither of them is perfect. If one of them would have been perfect then entire Object Pascal Programming community would have switched to that tool already.

Furthermore if your DLL is compiled in Delphi it means that the most recent instruction set used by the compiler is definitely the ancient SSE... whereas if the code was available, anyone could compile it with the relevant CPU optimization flags for their setup all the way up to AVX2.

Not true. As you can read in the Stack Owerflow question bellow Delphi does also support newer instruction sets.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...e-instructions

Any way @Akira13 if you know so much about game engines and how they "should" be made why don't you take reign as project leader of PGDCE and help by leading comunity into making one of the best game engines for Object Pascal?

[laggyluk]

Why wouldn't it be useful without the source code?
There are many closed sourced game engines out there like Unity, Unreal Engine etc. and they are still very popular. So why do you think that Luna Game Pascal needs to be open sourced to be useful?

To be precise full source of UE4 is available on github.

Any way @Akira13 if you know so much about game engines and how they "should" be made why don't you take reign as project leader of PGDCE and help by leading comunity into making one of the best game engines for Object Pascal?

this

[SilverWarior]

To be precise full source of UE4 is available on github.

Well I didn't know that so I stand corrected.

[Akira13]

@Akira13
I know that if I had something to say like that, I would have message you privately and in a more professional manner. The one thing you learn as you live life, is that it's the wrong assumption to assume the people will conduct themselves in a like manner as yourself. Sigh!

Admittedly I was a little more aggressive in that message than necessary. I wasn't really "asking" for the "product" though, nor was I personally that interested in it (as it's just a rehash of the same thing you've been posting forever.) I was simply pointing out that you have been following this cycle of releasing essentially the same thing over and over again and then just randomly disappearing and going scorched earth on all links to any downloads for the better part of a decade. Which is extremely odd behaviour IMO, that you've still never attempted to explain. Also, given the fact that it has virtually identical example demos as what you posted as far back as 2010 and earlier, calling it an "alpha product" is rather disingenous as the codebase is obviously years old, don't you think?

You say this like FPC is the only way to go. But it isn't.
Sure Delphi has some flaws but so does FPC. Neither of them is perfect. If one of them would have been perfect then entire Object Pascal Programming community would have switched to that tool already.

It kinda is these days for stuff that falls into the category of what PGD is focused on (i.e. games and other "high-performance-required" 2D and 3D graphics applications.) Delphi's RTL and VCL are certainly more expansive than the FCL and LCL, I don't think anyone would question that, but FPC itself is a massively better compiler than DCC32 that produces far faster code.

Not true. As you can read in the Stack Owerflow question bellow Delphi does also support newer instruction sets.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...e-instructions

Don't think you understood my point. Yes, you can use newer instruction sets in Delphi if you're writing assembly by hand. The Delphi compiler however does not, cannot, and will not make use of anything higher than SSE (or SSE2 with the 64-bit version, occasionally) when generating ASM from Pascal code in the process of compiling an actual "normal" executable. Compare this with FPC where you can simply set the optimization flag relevant to your CPU (which go all the way up to AVX2, again) and the compiler will attempt to make the best use of instructions up to that set that it can.

Any way I thinkthat piradyne would love to offer 64 bit support but from what I have seen it seems that Luna Game Pascal has its own custom compiler.

lol "custom". I guarantee you he's just using the PaxCompiler Delphi component, which does in fact support the 64-bit Delphi compiler.

Any way @Akira13 if you know so much about game engines and how they "should" be made why don't you take reign as project leader of PGDCE and help by leading comunity into making one of the best game engines for Object Pascal?

Obviously this is a "if you're so great why don't you do XYZ thing" sort of suggestion, but I have actually dug around the PGDCE codebase quite a bit in the past year or so... IIRC I had gotten pretty far with replacing that include-file nightmare "template" library it uses with real generic containers from Generics.Collections, and had also begun making a pass at converting the various vector-math records from using free-standing comparison functions to using overloaded internal "class" operators.

If there was any real interest I'd be more than happy to make finishing what I was working on in that regard a personal priority, and then deciding where to go from there. (I think I'd probably look at getting rid of the deprecated fixed-function matrix manipulation routines that the main OpenGL renderer used, next. I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense to name it TCEOpenGL4Renderer when it calls glLoadMatrixF, glScaleF, e.t.c....)

[SilverWarior]

but I have actually dug around the PGDCE codebase quite a bit in the past year or so... IIRC I had gotten pretty far with replacing that include-file nightmare "template" library it uses with real generic containers from Generics.Collections, and had also begun making a pass at converting the various vector-math records from using free-standing comparison functions to using overloaded internal "class" operators.

If so why haven't you posted any of the changes you made back to Github repository? Perhaps there would be more interest from others if they would know that someone is working on PGDCE at the moment. But until now I haven't seen any indication that you are working on PGDCE and I'm checking PGD forums almost on a daily basis.

[Akira13]

If so why haven't you posted any of the changes you made back to Github repository? Perhaps there would be more interest from others if they would know that someone is working on PGDCE at the moment. But until now I haven't seen any indication that you are working on PGDCE and I'm checking PGD forums almost on a daily basis.

I had simply downloaded it a while ago and was working on it locally. I was aware that the original team for the engine for some reason cared about supporting Delphi 7 (which obviously has no generics or operator overloading) meaning none of the changes I was making would be usable. It was just sort of a fun side-project for me.

That being said, again, I'd be perfectly happy to do some "real" development on the repo and commit the changes I'd made personally if anyone was interested (after cleaning them up, haven't looked at them for a while), if it is in fact the case that people have finally realized that Delphi 7 came out in 2002 and is not something that anyone should care about supporting anymore. Also, a game engine that actual game developers might actually want to use in 2017 needs to support OpenGL 3.3+ as the default/base, with MAYBE an OpenGL 2.0 "fallback" (although personally I'd leave it out...) Leave the OpenGL 1.0 fixed function stuff "at home", as they say...

[laggyluk]

That being said, again, I'd be perfectly happy to do some "real" development on the repo and commit the changes I'd made personally if anyone was interested (after cleaning them up, haven't looked at them for a while), if it is in fact the case that people have finally realized that Delphi 7 came out in 2002 and is not something that anyone should care about supporting anymore. Also, a game engine that actual game developers might actually want to use in 2017 needs to support OpenGL 3.3+ as the default/base, with MAYBE an OpenGL 2.0 "fallback" (although personally I'd leave it out...) Leave the OpenGL 1.0 fixed function stuff "at home", as they say...

I guess dropping D7 and moving away from old GL wouldn't be much of a problem since those interested in them also wore out and don't contribute anymore