C/C++ vs Pascal

[mobilus]

Epic for example choose to use C++ and wxWidgets for UnrealEd, but then for them that fulfilled their goals and offered the path of least resistance.

TS - Tim Sweeney

"-Wow, Pascal.
TS: Yeah, it was a good language. It was more rigorous than C++. When I moved from Pascal to C++ to create Jill of the Jungle, it was a real shock that people would actually be using a programming language that was so bad for large-scale development. To think that operating systems are built in that sort of language was really terrifying.
-So you think Pascal is more ideal to work in than C?
TS: It forced the programmer to be more structured and to avoid low-level hacking as much. It's not the best way to get maximum performance, but I think people tend to write much cleaner code when working in a language like Pascal than in C++. It influences your whole way of thinking about systems when you're writing code in a really structured way like that."
Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...im_.php?page=4


As you can see, Pascal as a programming language was never a problem... even for real game developers. You should rather look for tools, for your arguments, but you will fall again - today and tomorrow.

"It really depends on the project. Based on the task in hand, I might choose from Actionscript, PHP, Javascript, C/C++, Pascal, Java, Ruby, Python, C#, Assembly (80x86, x64, PPC, ARM), Objective C. Those are all of the most common languages I work with, though more recently I have been learning Erlang, io and Go."

"You have many slaves, Xerxes, but few warriors"

[Ingemar]

As a little update to this thread, I have thought things over and pretty much decided on the following for my CG course (starting in january):

Instead of offering the labs in C only, I will give them a choice: C or FPC. To me that's a no-brainer choice, but I will just let them decide, and recommend FPC for those who have little experience in working with pointers or who just prefer a language with fewer traps. And if they prefer C, be my guest.

The course is about CG and OpenGL, not about messing with pointers and learning C, and quite a few students don't have sufficient C skills anyway. Maybe I can help a few people and make the course a little bit more fun for me at the same time.

[LP]

By the way, Delphi has won two consecutive Annual Members Choice Awards on Code Project for 2010 and 2011 years (see Programming Languages category).

Instead of offering the labs in C only, I will give them a choice: C or FPC. To me that's a no-brainer choice, but I will just let them decide, and recommend FPC for those who have little experience in working with pointers or who just prefer a language with fewer traps. And if they prefer C, be my guest.

Speaking about scaring the students of the programming languages... Why not teaching something modern like C# and XNA?

By the way, Delphi has some interesting CG stuff on Efg's Lab.

[marcov]

One thing that strikes me though, is that most people here seem to think that pascal is "the" language (ok, it's a pascal forum haha) and also that learning languages is hard. I've experienced that once you know the concepts it's not that hard to learn C/C#/Java/Python/Ruby etc etc.. I'd advice everyone to do so. I see languages as tools and every tool has it's pro's and con's. Knowing a bunch of them makes you a better programmer, because you will see how each language would solve a problem, which allows you to pick the right tool for the right job.

I've learner many languages in my life, and IMHO the languages barely matter. Pascal is an exception because I think its string type is the easiest, yet fast and productive.

For serious use, it is more often the complete picture (language+framework+library+compiler+community) that matters.

It's true that pascal has a lot of features and power, but it's not neccesarily a reason to "not learn" other languages. The biggest advantage of having a "big toolbox" is that you can easily work together with other programmers, and have fun (which is where programming is all about ) , without having to debate about the language to use. There is no "best" language.

This sounds awfully like a recited lesson. Is this really own experience, or something you heard in class? :-)

I've heard it over and over in the last few years, and I think the whole concept that language is the most important bit is overrated.

Sure, extremely simplistic, obfuscated or defective (*) languages are a problem, but once you get to a certain minimal level, other factors are more important than language

(*) vote is still out on C. IMHO it is defective (the main issue is because == is so easily and silently confused with =), but the other factors (compiler availability most notably) is more important

[hwnd]

Old thread but what i really miss in delphi is STL. there are generics in XE but still nothing special.
atm im using stl through DLL. lots of useful stuff in STL and its fast.
Reason why i thinked about switching to C++, many times

[User137]

They are implemented in freepascal (hence usable with Lazarus)
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Generics
http://wiki.freepascal.org/Templates

Oh, but i don't believe it makes code any faster at all. Just might make it easier for programmer.

[hwnd]

what about std.map, std.vector. there is decal but doesnt satisfy me

[LP]

Old thread but what i really miss in delphi is STL. there are generics in XE but still nothing special.
atm im using stl through DLL. lots of useful stuff in STL and its fast.
Reason why i thinked about switching to C++, many times

What's so special about STL?

[hwnd]

speed and neat things like std:map. i tried xe tdictionary but it was unable to make same work as my c++ code. i got wrong results. dunno if tdictionary allows using custom sort routine.
i think problem was exactly in that.

[LP]

speed and neat things like std:map. i tried xe tdictionary but it was unable to make same work as my c++ code. i got wrong results. dunno if tdictionary allows using custom sort routine.
i think problem was exactly in that.

TDictionary uses hash table for storing key/value parameters. I don't know how or why would you need to sort hashed entries unless there are collisions. There is also ToArray function, which returns TArray, the last one does support custom sorting routine.

P.S. In my experience with TDictionary and XE 3, it is surprisingly fast, even with Unicode strings. I would definitely recommend it.