ATTENTION : PGD Annual 2007 - Stage 3 hint for entrants

[Sascha Willems]

I just saw that the first person already uploaded an entry for stage 3 but after downloading I decided not to try it out cause of the following reasons :

• It's an installer!
  This may be fine for redistributing a final product but not for something in-progress that I have to quickly test. I don't actually want to have to install games for the mid-stages to try them out and having to un-install them later on.
• It's in spanish (I guess) or whatever language!
  As if the above wasn't annoying enough the whole installer is in a language I can't even read. The texts, the captions and even the buttons. Dunno what to say about this...

So please do as everyone in the 2 first stages did an upload your entry as an archive (no matter if it's a zip, rar or even 7z) but not as a setup or something like that.

I would have pm'ed the entrant himself but I don't know if he is even active over here, at least I couldn't find a user with his name. So I thought to make this a public thread so maybe you (gilmareis) also read this.

[jasonf]

I'm sorry Sascha, but I think you're being a little harsh in this case..

1, It's an installer... it's in the rules that Installers are allowed as long as they install and uninstall cleanly. There's nothing to say that you can't use an installer.

Each submission will be either a single archive, compressed with a common format(Zip, RAR or GZip), that contains the executable and ALL other required game data and library files that are CLEANLY organized within OR a single installer that will both install and uninstall cleanly.

2, It's in Spanish, I would agree that it's hard to judge a game or a text file in a language you don't know so the developer should include an English translation. But I wouldn't say that they can't include their own language if they want to... they've probably got Spanish (or whatever language) people testing things for them, using the same readme file for the instructions. Perhaps suggesting a better icon system or allowing for an alternate language would be better than slating their entry directly.

As long as there is enough detail in English to allow the judges to judge, I don't see the problem. If this isn't the case, then the entrant needs to address this.

How about a game like Captain Blood, where the game player had to learn a brand new language in order to play it?

[AthenaOfDelphi]

Slightly off topic... Captain Blood was an excellent game :-D I've been trying to get hold of disk images of it for an age (before anyone shouts pirate... I own an original copy for the ST)

Back on-topic...

Whilst the rules state that a single installer will do, I have to agree with Sascha. From the perspective of a judge, zips are much friendlier at this point in the competition.

It takes long enough just unzipping... having to go through the trauma of a full install when you're trying to get things done quickly... we have personal lives too ya know ;-)

We can't stop you submitting entries as installers, but we (well... Sascha and I at least) would prefer ZIP files for the convenience of quick installation/removal.

[czar]

I am not sure what the problem is. A simple installer would be no slower than a zip file.

A good installer is also a no brainer. Open exe, next, next, next, and final screen launch app. Then when you are done testing go to "start menu" and click uninstall.

And at least you you know that all the elements of the program are going to be the correct place.

However, I would agree that an installer in Spanish is not on. All installers that I have ever used have language support.

[Robert Kosek]

Uh, sorry to butt in here, but not really.

Inno Setup installs cleanly over existing installs, letting you "upgrade"/"patch" an existing install to the current version without ever uninstalling until you are absolutely through. I figured you would want to know.

It also supports many languages out of the box, it's free, and you can bundle a multilingual installer in no time flat.

Please don't consider me rude, but your arguments are just silly. In the same time you have extraction take it'll install, create shortcuts, and offer to launch with minimal end-user input and thought.

Knowing that, I don't see how a freely packaged, easy to use installer that supports your language and "install-overs" is ever an "unfriendly" choice -- even in the alpha/beta stage. Besides, I've installed some games (Delphi demo stuff) with installers in German and haven't complained once; an unspoken rule of installers is the first button is "< Back" the second is "Next >" and the third is "Cancel" ... given that the license page is bloody obvious, this is just a bunch of nitpicking.

[Sascha Willems]

Well, it's NOT the usual installer like InnoSetup (or NullSofts installer) and you actually have to check a checkbox with a spanish label before you can click a button to continue installation.

But the game itself pops up a lengthy message box before starting which is asking you something in spanish, the game itself is spanish too and (I can't believe it) this is the readme (even the readme has a spanish filename) :

Leia-ME Mar07


E-Mail...


obrigado

There is no single english explanaition nowhere to be found. There is an additional rtf file called NaveHelp.rtf but it's also in spansh. In my eyes this is ridicoulus!

If you take part in an international contest with international judges (three judges, each of us from a different country) not providing anything in an international language (and the widest known language is english and not spanish or whatever) is an insult in my opinion.

And there are even some more things in that entry that upset me as it also seems to include copyrighted material like music and stuff, actuall I don't know what to say...

[czar]

Yes, I see your point regarding the Spanish language.

Maybe something to consider for next year's competition - make it international.

[Robert Kosek]

Sascha, that should be on a per-entry basis and I can see why you aren't pleased. I wouldn't be either. But the angle of "forget installers early on" just because of a single entry was a bit more than I was willing to stomach -- especially when the sentiments were echoed by Athena. There's a pretty clear right way and wrong way to do things and this entry clearly was on the latter side (especially since they're using copyrighted music!).

[AthenaOfDelphi]

Just to be clear, my dislike of installers has nothing to do with this one entry. I have a variety of reasons why I prefer ZIPs to installers.

So whilst the competition rules state installers are allowed, at this stage in the competition I would personally prefer that entries are contained in ZIPs.

[jdarling]

I really have to argue the other side of this. If their native tongue is Spanish then why would they think to upload the game in any other language? There is nothing in the rules that states that entry's must be in English. In fact, I've seen Spanish, Russian, and many other languages utilized here on the boards. Sure, its difficult to play a game or run an installer in a different language, but its not impossible.

Unless a language is specifically stated in the rules of the competition, you can't hold this against the entrant. Utilize any of the translation pages and see if you can't get something from it. Yes, its an inconvenience, but don't blame the entrant.

We, commonly run into this when we do contests and sweepstakes for our customers. Unless we specifically state that the content needs to be in a given language, its our responsibility to either have it translated or take appropriate action to have a native reader/speaker judge the entry.

Sorry guys, and gals, but this isn't the entrants problem. Its very arrogant to call English the universal language. Actually, there are plenty of other languages that are as common (if not more common) then English. Spanish, Standard Chinese, Canadian Indian (I don't think I spelled that one properly) to name a few. I will grant you that English is considered a universal language, course so is Latin.

A reasonable request would be to have some translated screenshots or callouts that aid in your playing the entry. Also a translated version of the readme could be requested, but according to the rules, not demanded.