View Poll Results: What bare essentials would you keep in a Light Edition of Delphi to make it Low Cost?

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  • Compiler / Linker

    44 97.78%
  • Code Editor (IDE)

    41 91.11%
  • Visual Component Library (VCL)

    28 62.22%
  • Object Model (non-VCL)

    27 60.00%
  • Documentation

    24 53.33%
  • Form Designer (RAD)

    27 60.00%
  • Debugging Tools

    41 91.11%
  • Database Components & Libraries

    4 8.89%
  • Reports, Charts & Specialty Visual Components

    2 4.44%
  • Web and Internet Communication Components

    5 11.11%
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Thread: Light Edition of Delphi at a Low Cost

  1. #21
    Ok things that can be left out of delphi 2009.
    - Rave Reports
    - Lite version of install shield application / installaware
    - Vcl for the web (aka all iw controlls) / websnap / internet express
    - Ribbon controls
    - Teechart Std.
    - icon collections
    - Interbase components
    - dbGO (dao / msaccess)
    - Indy components (but i do want to be able add indy components from the latest source version)
    - Internet components (see Indy remark)
    - BDE ( who is still using it? )
    - Win3.1 components ( who is still using it? )
    - Version Control
    - Data Explorer
    - Delphi Class Explorer
    - c++ builder
    - delphi prism
    - rad studio command prompt
    - remote debugger
    - doc o matic express version

    Things that should stay
    - Data Controls
    - Data Access
    - Dialogs
    - System
    - Win32
    - Additional
    - Standard
    - Webservices
    - Debugging


    Things i am in doubt on:
    - Allow to install componts from source / use packages (my only need is sqlite/indy components)
    - dbExpress as i do want to be able to add an sqlite database in an easy way. (support for backfish sql / interbase and datasnap may be dropped) ( or but better i want to use an sqlite database with the data access components)
    - Refactoring ( i use it often, but with care i can do without it)
    - SVN support that suposedly is added in delphi xe (would be nice, but we have lived without it)
    - Offline help / documentation
    - source of supplied components

    Ok shoot on it :-)

    Also i am curious what do the free ms ide tools bring?
    Last edited by noeska; 24-11-2010 at 06:04 PM.
    http://3das.noeska.com - create adventure games without programming

  2. #22
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    That's a great breakdown. I have a feeling what they may try to do is keep things that are symbolic and characteristic of Delphi, such as the IDE and the core VCL, and a few things that they have just put in and want them to get popular, such as SVN and Cloud functionality and maybe even some of the re-factoring.

    The Educational version could have similar restrictions such as what the old Turbo Pascal educational compiler did. It told everyone that it was an educational version and software made with it should not be sold and to report it. I'm not sure it if was TP or another compiler I'm thinking of but, I remember such a compiler registered with the name of the school so it was easier to catch where the program came from.

    I've played with the free Visual Studio offerings for C# some time ago out of curiosity. It's like C trying to be Delphi, which is kind of funny. Some of the ideas are cool, but they are building on the messy foundation that is C, which is it's main problem. Lots of files just to start with instead of a unified set of code to extend from. Some people seem happy to deal with it, but for this coder, I'm far less impressed than others seem to be. C I'm sure is still C under the VS umbrella.
    Jason McMillen
    Pascal Game Development
    Co-Founder





  3. #23
    I know last post was 3 years ago, but I want to give you this:

    Why they can't go back into model that worked so well up until Delphi 7? I'm talking about free Personal editions.

  4. #24
    I would gues taht it is so becouse those t the top of Embarcadero leadership are not programers but some marketing guys. They don't understand that for a tool such as Delphi you always need to be atracting new peepole othervise you are facing scenario that someday noone would be left to use your product (pepole retire, swithc to other programming languages, etc).
    I mean which newbie developer would be prepared to pay 199€ for Starter Edition just to see wheter Objective Pascal (Delphi) is the programming language suitable for him. Especially when you consider that Starter Edition only supports Win32 development with no databases. It is almost like you would have Delphi 7 Personal Edition with support for some new features that were included in Delphi programing language (Unicode, Generisc, etc).
    And when you also take a look at limitation of only being able to earn 1000$ of revenues before you are forced to upgrade to athleast Proffesional edition that just sucks.
    Once your company's total revenue reaches US $1,000, or your team expands to more than 5 developers, you can move up to an unrestricted commercial license with a specially priced Professional edition license.
    http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/starter-faq

    Unles they change the way of their thinking soon noone wuld be using Delphi anymore. Even long term developers are leaving becouse EMB is to lazy to go and fix many bugs that are present in Delphi for years.
    I could never understand how can someone go and implement new features/extensions of existing code when that code itself is buggy as hell instead of fuxing the bugs first.
    Doing so means that al those bugs would be hampering your newest features to work properly. Not to mention that when you finally go to fix those bugs it migh result you in need to rewrite portion of those features implementations.

    PS Sorry for my rant but I just had to get this out of me.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhog View Post
    I know last post was 3 years ago, but I want to give you this:

    Why they can't go back into model that worked so well up until Delphi 7? I'm talking about free Personal editions.
    Did you mean something like Turbo editions... wait... they killed it for the wrong reasons I think, who knows now.

  6. #26
    I think he means that at some point Borland has been providing Delphi 6 and later Delphi 7 personal editions for free. I belive that was the time when delphi 2007 and later 2009 came out.
    The reason why I started using Delphi in the first place was becouse I got first Delphi 6 and later Delphi 7 for free. And since at the time FPC was still early in its development and quite unstable Delphi was one of rare fully featured and stable Objective Pascal development tools for Windows.
    If at that time I would have to pay for Delphi I would have never started programming in Objective Pascal but probably still banging my head in C++ (its sintax is quite inlogical to me) in which I first started programming or even quit on my atempt to become programer.
    The reason why I'm still Delphi supporter even if it is far from perfect is that if it wasn't for Delphi I wouldn't be here today.

  7. #27
    @SilverWarrior: That's exactly what I meant.

    But I find Lazarus better than any of Delphis as it doesn't have stupid and unintuitive interface Delphis after 7 had. IMO they borked it. Tried too hard to look like Visual Studio. Maybe I'm just (23 years ) old, but I prefered Delphi's 7 and Lazarus' interface better.

    I've found out about Delphi a bit other way. I've programmed since I've been 10 years old, started with Turbo Pascal (my first program asked for name and then printed "Hello, <name>!"). Then I wanted to make Windows apps. Husband of my cousin (I think ) when he heard about that gave me CD from computer magazine (PC World, I think, but back then in Poland it was called PC World Komputer) with full version of Delphi 5 Standard. I didn't have internet back then as broadband connection wasn't as cheap as it is now and we couldn't afford modem, to be sure, but I think it was months before release of Delphi 6.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhog View Post
    But I find Lazarus better than any of Delphis as it doesn't have stupid and unintuitive interface Delphis after 7 had. IMO they borked it. Tried too hard to look like Visual Studio. Maybe I'm just (23 years ) old, but I prefered Delphi's 7 and Lazarus' interface better.
    Actually I perfer new Delphi interface more (I never manged to position all those windows right so I could acces all of them without searching the proper one) but I would like to be able to undock Form design zo a seperate window. Now it is still posible of using undocked design in newest Delphi versions but that leads to my old problem of finding proper window.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhog View Post
    I've found out about Delphi a bit other way. I've programmed since I've been 10 years old, started with Turbo Pascal (my first program asked for name and then printed "Hello, <name>!"). Then I wanted to make Windows apps. Husband of my cousin (I think ) when he heard about that gave me CD from computer magazine (PC World, I think, but back then in Poland it was called PC World Komputer) with full version of Delphi 5 Standard. I didn't have internet back then as broadband connection wasn't as cheap as it is now and we couldn't afford modem, to be sure, but I think it was months before release of Delphi 6.
    My first program (fi you could say that) was predefined choice survey made with a Batch file alone
    I showed that to my computer science proffesor which then suggested that I get some boks on C++ and learn that. I must say that I had gread dificulties of finding beginers book on C++ writen in Slovenian language. All of them were ment only for intermediate and advanced programmers.
    So when one day I mentioned my intentions of learning of programming in C++ to one of my friends he gave me some C++ IDE (CPP i belive). So I started fidling with it using IDEs documentation for reference and I did manage to write several "Helo World" style applications, but I never managed to move further.
    One day I went to find a Slovenian C++ programing forum but stumbled to Delphi-Si forum instead. There I just opened random topic and saw Objective Pascal code syntax for the first time. It seemed quite understandable and logical to me. Since I wasn't searching for Pascal based forum I moved on soon.
    But for some rason I couldn't get that code out of my head so I returned to that forum again later, opened the same topic agan and started looking at that code even more thorow. AnAfter looking at that code for some time I belived that I found the error in that code. So I registered on that forum and posted my opinion about the error in that source code. And ques what I was right. I did find the error in that souce code and even my proposed solution worked even thou I have written it compleetly out of my head without any previous expirience in Objective Pascal.
    So at that time I started of thinking that maybe I should rather learn Objective Pascal instead of C++.
    So I asked on the forums for advice on how to start. I got quick reply with information about where to Download Delphi 6 Personal Edition for free and even which beginers book I should read. And that book was written in Slovenian language.
    So I went and ordered that book and asked my computer science professor to download the Delphi to me (I only had DialUp modem at the time).
    Professor managed to download Delphi for me on the same day before the school was over so I rushed home to quickly try it out. I even skiped last class
    Once at home I quickly realized how great Delphi is and in the first day managed to develop full fledged Calculator copy.
    The book arrived in about a weak time later. When it did I starter reading it and manged to read one third of it in one go (verry impresive since I never liked reading books).
    What impressed me most is that even after reading one third of the book I haven't learned much new. This was not becouse book would be written badly, it is written verry good, but becouse I manged to learn most of those things only by trial and error and reading Delphi's domcumentation in that weak alone before book arrived.

    So you can now understand how I can get angry when someone tries to convince me that Objective Pascal is shitty language and I should move to some other like C++
    Last edited by SilverWarior; 01-06-2013 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Typos corrections

  9. #29
    For me C++ is shitty language. I mean, it is easier for memory leak in C++ than in Pascal (ANY pascal) because pointers are used freaking everywhere, even in place where passing variable by value instead of by reference would be enough. In Pascal you use pointers only when you have to. I'll probably stop right now, because I'm ranting again and this is not thread for that. I also need to write Super Heli Land (contrary to popular believe games aren't writing themselves).

    Now, I can do some simple C++, but only with stuff like C++ Builder (by the way is it still around? Last version I remember was C++ Builder 5) and QT Creator. I could never could write c++ app from scratch, because I am simply unable to.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhog View Post
    Now, I can do some simple C++, but only with stuff like C++ Builder (by the way is it still around? Last version I remember was C++ Builder 5) and QT Creator. I could never could write c++ app from scratch, because I am simply unable to.
    Yes C++ Builder is still aroud. Embarcadero keeps both Delphi and C++ Builder in development.

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